Live data from Hacker News

Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

counterpointresearch.com

101–110 of 265 posts

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#101

Apple has brand loyalty, and apparently, they earned it. In buying an Android handset, your options shift over time. Samsung has the most brand loyalty, and some high-end handsets, as well as some lower end ones. The rest of the brands seem to waffle between trying to be high-end, and being the best value. For example, OnePlus set out to be compete against the high-end with really low prices, but over time, the price…

Huawei went after Apple, including on quality. They were shot down right when their sales overtook Apple's (maybe a coincidence, who knows...)

Huawei and Apple have a similar market share profile in mainland China (Huawei sells more, Apple earns more) where government interference is lacking.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't. Only first time smartphone buyers have a choice.. you'll lose all your appstore purchases when you switch and having repurchase everything is going to dissuade anyone from switching. Even for the first time buyers, if all their friends are on iMessage, they practically have to buy an iPhone.

Why would you need iMessages? I don't find it more useful than old school sms messaging. If you want secure messaging perhaps whatsup or signal are better options anyway.

In the United States iMessage is almost the default messenger. I don't know anybody that uses WhatsApp, Telegram, or Signal. iMessage requires no extra setup its already there by default when you buy an iPhone. Asking somebody non-techy to switch messaging apps just isn't going to happen.

With iMessage you can send high resolution photos and videos, which may seem like not a big deal. But it is. Sending a message between Android and iOS uses mms and the photo/video is compressed to an unusable state. I can airdrop a 1GB+ file instantly to any Apple device. How do I transfer a 1GB file to somebody on Android or on a PC? Upload to google drive? then re-download it thru the App? That takes minutes and 5+ steps. When I've already Airdropped the file in seconds on my Apple device by tapping "send".

iMessage/Apple products are about convenience and ease of use. Apple is the best in both of those categories.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#103
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many consumers are even paying more? iPhones start pretty cheap — not as low as the cheapest Android phones but they're starting with much better hardware and are supported considerably longer so this starts to feel more like Sam Vimes' boots[1] where someone buying cheap Android phones spends more than an iPhone SE over the service life. Flagship Android phones cost the same, often even more, than an iPhone desp…

When you say "not as low", the cheapest iPhone I can find looks like the SE, at 389 pounds. I can find multiple Android phones for 50 pounds -- that's nearly an eigth of the price. I don't deny the SE is a better phone than a 50 pound phone, but it's also in an entirely different bracket -- I wouldn't give a 10 year old a nearly 400 pound iPhone, I'd give them a 50 pound Android, for example.

In my experience, kids end up with phones when their parents upgrade. So kids do have £400 phones... eventually, when they're no longer £400.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#104
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news for Apple is that the next phase is AR, and I expect that Apple will captures the lion's share of the profits there too.

My bet is that AR is going to go the way of 3D TVs.

Every major tech vendor seems certain AR glasses are going to be the "next Smartphone", if you will, in terms of UI and market trends. Nothing else could explain their continued emphasis on AR tools & demos for platforms that suck to use for AR except as a novelty (i.e. all current platforms).

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#105
post #80

Apple has brand loyalty, and apparently, they earned it. In buying an Android handset, your options shift over time. Samsung has the most brand loyalty, and some high-end handsets, as well as some lower end ones. The rest of the brands seem to waffle between trying to be high-end, and being the best value. For example, OnePlus set out to be compete against the high-end with really low prices, but over time, the price…

Isn't it pretty easy to to get a good phone? If people buy line A from brand B and are happy with it, I'd expect that 2-3 years later when they buy the latest A from B, they'd get a phone that's as good or better. I mention this because most people are satisficers, not maximizers. [1] They want a good phone, not the best phone. So I suspect that for most consumers, this isn't particularly a hard choice. They're going…

>Isn't it pretty easy to to get a good phone? If people buy line A from brand B and are happy with it, I'd expect that 2-3 years later when they buy the latest A from B, they'd get a phone that's as good or better.

I'd argue that there hasn't been a single phone released since the Galaxy S10 that is an improvement on that phone. Sure it might have better specifications on paper, but they are all worse products due to the features that all flagship phones have removed over time (removable storage, headphone jacks, going down to pentile 1080p screens to name a few). For my needs, the entire phone industry has turned to utter crap while prices have continued to climb to pay for ever more camera modules, increasing Qualcomm prices (with the same crappy upgrade support), and marketing costs.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#106
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good news for Apple is that the next phase is AR, and I expect that Apple will captures the lion's share of the profits there too.

My bet is that AR is going to go the way of 3D TVs.

3D TVs were always a solution in search of problem. I've seen 3D movies before and it was always lackluster. I even have a 3D TV because that's all that was being sold when I bought mine, I never bought glasses for it or even cared to try it out.

AR is a whole other ballgame, it's a layer on top of reality whereas 3D was a super-niche format that could only be viewed with special glasses in front of a special screen. If you remove the need for the screen OR the glasses then you have something interesting and that's what AR is. If my TV could do 3D without glasses I might be slightly more interested in it.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#107
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many consumers are even paying more? iPhones start pretty cheap — not as low as the cheapest Android phones but they're starting with much better hardware and are supported considerably longer so this starts to feel more like Sam Vimes' boots[1] where someone buying cheap Android phones spends more than an iPhone SE over the service life. Flagship Android phones cost the same, often even more, than an iPhone desp…

When you say "not as low", the cheapest iPhone I can find looks like the SE, at 389 pounds. I can find multiple Android phones for 50 pounds -- that's nearly an eigth of the price. I don't deny the SE is a better phone than a 50 pound phone, but it's also in an entirely different bracket -- I wouldn't give a 10 year old a nearly 400 pound iPhone, I'd give them a 50 pound Android, for example.

Apple's answer to low end android phones is second hand iPhones. I bought my 10 year old a second hand original SE for the same price as a super low end Android and it's probably a better phone. It even runs the latest version of iOS, something that cannot be said for many of those cheap Android devices.

As a matter of full disclosure, my personal phone is an Android phone.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#108
post #18

...with only a 13% share of units. That is, all other vendors together sold 87% of units, but earned only a combined 25% of industry-wide profit. The vast majority of those other vendors are companies headquartered in Asian countries with a long history of promoting market share, access to information, and knowledge transfer at the expense of short-term profit. They might be making less money willingly to grow/mainta…

> ...with only a 13% share of units.

> Asian countries with a long history of promoting market share, access to information, and knowledge transfer at the expense of short-term profit.

Apple is the king of parasitic technological and scientific knowledge rentierism and obfuscation, as well as king in exploitation. it's neo-imperialism at it's most 'refined'.

profits are surplus value extracted from workers, including the intellectual property extracted by knowledge workers [1], [2]. monopolistic 'vertical integration' means zero interoperability and maximum alienation (through the division of labor, and the creation of systematic knowledge hierarchies): 'designed in California, made in China' is supposed to modestly signal American intellectual 'talent', yet which instead just shows the insane level of manufactured consent achieved by SV and the US in their science and tech monopolization [3].

don't think it's so bad? Vijay Prashad: "iPhone workers today are 25 times more exploited than textile workers in 19th Century England" [4]

[1] https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley

[2] https://venturecommune.substack.com/p/go-where-workers-are-a...

[3] Marianna Mazzucato, https://web.archive.org/web/20160204223931/https://nybooks.c... + https://marianamazzucato.com/books/the-entrepreneurial-state

[4] https://mronline.org/2019/09/29/iphone-workers-today-are-25-...

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#109
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "not as low", the cheapest iPhone I can find looks like the SE, at 389 pounds. I can find multiple Android phones for 50 pounds -- that's nearly an eigth of the price. I don't deny the SE is a better phone than a 50 pound phone, but it's also in an entirely different bracket -- I wouldn't give a 10 year old a nearly 400 pound iPhone, I'd give them a 50 pound Android, for example.

How many people are happily buying those really cheap phones, though? I've known a few, who bought a couple per year(!) because the hardware kept failing, but it seems like most people are buying in the iPhone SE range and the younger kids end up getting a hand-me-down when their parents upgrade (and since an iPhone is 6+ years of service, that's plenty).

> How many people are happily buying those really cheap phones, though? I've known a few, who bought a couple per year(!) because the hardware kept failing

This is my parents. Between the two of them I bet they average 3 new phones per year, because they keep buying cheap Android phones, but they just can't bring themselves to spend more, even though it'd actually be cheaper and then their phone wouldn't suck. Plus because they keep buying Android and all these cheap phones run on different major versions and with different vendor customizations, they're constantly having trouble with wildly different UI for even basic things like the phone "app".

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#110
post #18

...with only a 13% share of units. That is, all other vendors together sold 87% of units, but earned only a combined 25% of industry-wide profit. The vast majority of those other vendors are companies headquartered in Asian countries with a long history of promoting market share, access to information, and knowledge transfer at the expense of short-term profit. They might be making less money willingly to grow/mainta…

This also likely doesn't account for post-sale profit, ie. other manufacturers might have spyware/"sponsored content" baked into the OS to recoup some margin.

This is seems in the right ballpark. Vertical integration means not only that Apple has sufficient control to make a “luxury” product (I use quotes bc the iPhone doesn’t really fit into the “luxury” category as it’s conventionally understood), but that it can build a value proposition around the notion that customers who buy into the apple ecosystem know their data isn’t going anywhere else. This sort of concern seems to be getting more media traction now.

I did a spell working on homicide investigations in the US, and I was consistently amazed by the gulf of difficulty between obtaining legally solicited data from Apple vs. any other company. Most companies drag their feet with subpoenas and search warrants to some degree, but most will just accept it and eventually send what you’ve requested. Apple wouldn’t give you shit unless you had it signed by a judge in your state, a judge in Cupertino, and the prosecutors office in Cupertino. You then had to serve the subpoena/SW in-person at their Cupertino HQ. Say what you want about Apple, but there’s no question that they go above and beyond their competitors when it comes to their users’ privacy.

The spat playing out in the news between Cook and Zuck might seem like posturing on both sides, but I think Apple’s argument is genuine. They believe that people should be able to pay more for more control over their data. Facebook believe that the harvesting data is necessary to keep the internet cheap or free to maintain low access barriers. Both are valid points. But it seems to me that the more aware you are of what Google and FB do with your data, the more willing you will be to shell out for devices and services which not only promise not to give your info to every Tom, Dick, and Harry but also have NO INCENTIVE to do so. The median consumer isn’t dumb: they know there’s no such thing as a free lunch. The bulk of the price difference between Android and Apple phones isn’t down to operational efficiencies or technology, it’s down to the vastly different business models.

With Apple devices, you know how the sausage is made (i.e. your hard earned cash). With Android, you don’t—-but most people figure it out sooner or later. The more tech savvy the consumer becomes, the more they’ll realise what the real “price” of an Android phone is, and the more attractive Apple devices (or any product which doesn’t make consumers pay for stuff in ways they don’t fully control, consent to, or understand) become.

Of course, one could argue that emphasis on privacy differs from culture to culture, but the data privacy piece also bears on rapidly changing understandings of healthy tech use. In lots of places, people just don’t care as much about privacy as the average American does. London is one of the most heavily surveilled cities in the world, and the vast majority of Londoners couldn’t care less. But consumers are increasingly learning how technology can not only add but detract from their lives. There was that Netflix doc (which I didn’t see) about why social media is addictive and makes a bunch of people unhappy etc., then there’s this latest report about how FB is bad for lots of people, but there’s a larger trend there and it is catching up with those areas within the tech industry.

To varying degrees of obviousness, Apple exudes alignment with what its customers actually want for themselves. Apple compiles data on your phone usage; if you want to use your phone less, Apple helps you do that by letting you put time limits on your usage of whatever apps you want to use less. The power of these subtle features at ensconcing product loyalty is often overlooked. Your average punter’s market macro analysis tends to view consumers as crude neoclassical utility functions, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that consumers notice thiede little tells on some level or another. We’ve evolved to be able to judge whether someone can be trusted based on their actions. Phones aren’t people, but they are a proxy for a corporate entity which everyone understands is a consortium of people who want to make money. These are devices we have increasingly intimate relationships with. These devices are demonstrating increasing levels of sentience and intersubjectivity. I know this sounds far-fetched at first, but it makes sense when we consider that the shift to AI is not a 0-to-perfect AGI but rather a gradual shift in which machines will steadily accumulate feature of sentience. The main change, though, is consumer knowledge. When we learn about how our digital overlords make their trillion dollar sausages, we can say: ok, Apply IS charging me an arm and a leg for this stuff, but at least everything is above the table, and at least they’re looking after me once I buy into their ecosystem. A new android customer now is more likely to know that Android is owned by Google; they are more likely to know how Google makes money, and they may be more aware of the deleterious daily grind of being bombarded with highly targeted marketing designed to make you pay the difference (as the person I’m replying to mentioned). If you can afford it, if you value your time and attention, and if your recognise how the forces on online marketing can influence your behaviour in ways you don’t want it to, you may well decide that you’d rather pay an extra few hundred bucks for the Apple product.

Indeed, the Americans here need no reminder of how much economic self-interest people may be willing to sacrifice for a greater measure of perceived transparency and probity.

Post reply on HN