Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#91

Post by CarelessExpert » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #32

I think we might be missing the big picture here. Apple captures 75% of the profit from handset market share. The rest is split between high end Android devices from say Samsung and low-end commodity Shanzhan android devices. But in the Android sphere Google is clearly capturing the profits from Android devices on software. https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/21/10810834/android-generate... In addition to profits, Google…

This is an excellent point. If "operating profit" also includes app store revenues, payment revenues (remember, Apple requires apps use their payment platform), and content revenues, the likes of Samsung, et al, are at a serious disadvantage and can only compete on device margins as they can't tap into any of those revenue streams.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#92

Post by EveYoung » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #67

xoa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insane. I'm honestly dumbstruck that people like you are dumbstruck. It's not very hard, and whether you your self use powerful handheld computers/cameras much it's objectively obvious others do a lot. Just do the normal ROI calc. Apple makes a feature for this called "ScreenTime". How many hours a day is the aver…

> Do the math. What is so shocking about spending What's surprising is that for the vast majority the same can be done for <20ç/hour.

Yes, but researching these alternatives takes time and energy. Personally, I rather spent a £1-2k more on my tech gadgets per year than leaving the Apple ecosystem, which works well for me.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#93

Post by creshal » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #70

cies wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What differentiates those premium phones? It runs the same Android of which I rather have a stock version than the bloat-ware rubbish that phone makers install on there for me. The iOS devices link into a web of ease-of-use, and come with a reasonably well make stock version of iOS. And then there's trust. Whom does an average user trust more with their data? (Apple/USgov, or Google/USgov+Samsung/SouthKorea+...)

Believe it or not, but "stock Android" has been tried about 10 times. It failed. Only techies care. Regular users want a ton of features. Edit: Sales numbers tell you all you need to know about "stock Android" success :-)

Most regular users want as many features as they can get, for a reasonable price point. And Samsung is king in that market – their A series phones have a huge sales volume.

Some users can afford real premium phones. And Samsung's offerings mostly just kinda suck software wise, even when the hardware is decent. Techies know this and have a huge variety of stock Android alternatives to choose from (which, somehow, continue to exist…), and even non-techies very quickly figure out that Apple or Google Pixel phones just work, unlike Samsung's.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#94

Post by wpietri » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

xoa wrote: post #42

johnchristopher wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking with a MediaMarkt employee last week, we were talking smartphones and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insance. Yet people buy them in bulk. The brand is that strong. Apparently people also rush to replace their old models every year or two. Anyway, it just popped into my mind that I dreamt about buying a phone last night and the shop's o…

> and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insane. I'm honestly dumbstruck that people like you are dumbstruck. It's not very hard, and whether you your self use powerful handheld computers/cameras much it's objectively obvious others do a lot. Just do the normal ROI calc. Apple makes a feature for this called "ScreenTime". How many hours a day is the aver…

I will grant that a small fraction of iPhone owners do a careful analysis similar to yours. And good for them.

But just look at Apple ads to see what their real market is. Their ads don't argue that they're a good value. Apple established themselves as a luxury good that indicates wealth and social status. Their ads look like other ads for wealthy people. The reason Apple doesn't make a cheap phone is the same reason Porche doesn't make a cheap car. They could, but it would drop total profit as the luxury premium evaporates.

The funny thing is, I've heard people make the exact same argument people are making here but for Louis Vuitton bags. It's something they use every day! They're so well made that they last a long time! They have great resale value! And all of those things are true, but people who spend $100 on a purse are still going to give side-eye to people who spend $1000 or $10,000, and I think that's fine. In my view status goods are a plague upon humanity.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#95

Post by creshal » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #37

cs702 wrote: post #18

...with only a 13% share of units. That is, all other vendors together sold 87% of units, but earned only a combined 25% of industry-wide profit. The vast majority of those other vendors are companies headquartered in Asian countries with a long history of promoting market share, access to information, and knowledge transfer at the expense of short-term profit. They might be making less money willingly to grow/mainta…

This also likely doesn't account for post-sale profit, ie. other manufacturers might have spyware/"sponsored content" baked into the OS to recoup some margin.

I'm willing to bet that all of these combined don't even come within an order of magnitude to the iOS app store.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#96

Post by acdha » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #60

acdha wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many consumers are even paying more? iPhones start pretty cheap — not as low as the cheapest Android phones but they're starting with much better hardware and are supported considerably longer so this starts to feel more like Sam Vimes' boots[1] where someone buying cheap Android phones spends more than an iPhone SE over the service life. Flagship Android phones cost the same, often even more, than an iPhone desp…

When you say "not as low", the cheapest iPhone I can find looks like the SE, at 389 pounds. I can find multiple Android phones for 50 pounds -- that's nearly an eigth of the price. I don't deny the SE is a better phone than a 50 pound phone, but it's also in an entirely different bracket -- I wouldn't give a 10 year old a nearly 400 pound iPhone, I'd give them a 50 pound Android, for example.

How many people are happily buying those really cheap phones, though? I've known a few, who bought a couple per year(!) because the hardware kept failing, but it seems like most people are buying in the iPhone SE range and the younger kids end up getting a hand-me-down when their parents upgrade (and since an iPhone is 6+ years of service, that's plenty).

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#97

Post by rjzzleep » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #82

handrous wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was talking with a MediaMarkt employee last week, we were talking smartphones and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insance. They start at $400, right? Only really, really budget Android phones come in much under that. > Yet people buy them in bulk. The brand is that strong. Apparently people also rush to replace their old models every year or two.…

> > I was talking with a MediaMarkt employee last week, we were talking smartphones and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insance. > They start at $400, right? Only really, really budget Android phones come in much under that. More like 489€. I don't know what's apple most sold devices for this year though. I have an old not-budget phone (z5c) from 6 ye…

Might wanna take a look at the following. I had an z3c that had a better supported android version from xda than a more recent xz2c because of their camera DRM and kernel bugs. Sony dev community has mostly dried up ...

https://forum.xda-developers.com/f/xperia-z5-compact-android...

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#98

Post by marcellus23 » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #67

xoa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and we both were dumbstruck about iphone prices. We agree it's good hardware/products but the price is insane. I'm honestly dumbstruck that people like you are dumbstruck. It's not very hard, and whether you your self use powerful handheld computers/cameras much it's objectively obvious others do a lot. Just do the normal ROI calc. Apple makes a feature for this called "ScreenTime". How many hours a day is the aver…

> Do the math. What is so shocking about spending What's surprising is that for the vast majority the same can be done for <20ç/hour.

Not really, unless you look at these devices like someone who thinks all cars are equal because they're all capable of taking you from A to B.

If you're spending that much time with a device, you would probably prefer the experience to be _nice_, not shoddy.

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#99

Post by pwinnski » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #20

I think one of the smartest things Apple did was open physical stores and not depend on carrier stores and Best Buy. I've often wondered why their competitors don't do the same thing? Why isn't there a Samsung store a block away from every Apple store? Having a physical location for purchases, repairs, and support is why I always recommend Apple devices when somebody who isn't super technical asks me what to buy. Mic…

Apple is capturing 75% of profits, and sees the stores as instrumental to that. Every other company seems to see retail as an additional cost.

Apple started with kiosks inside of Best Buy, too, and it took many years before their stores reached the level of ubiquity they have today. Any competitor trying to make the same level of investment would lead to Apple's share of profits inching closer to 100%, as their competitors would be spending a ton on retail buildouts.

Apple makes more per square foot of retail than anyone else[0]. It's not even really close. Each of the other companies you've mentioned has opened stores, albeit not on the same scale. None of them have seen anything like similar results, so why would they keep expanding to match scale?

Apple Stores are valuable because Apple products are valuable. Apple products are valuable in part because Apple Stores are valuable. It's a virtuous circle that doesn't work for any of their competitors, at least not any so far.

0. https://news.retailsphere.com/how-apple-became-the-worlds-hi...

Re: Apple Captures 75% of Global Handset Market Operating Profit in Q2 2021

#100

Post by wpietri » Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #61

mohanmcgeek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't. Only first time smartphone buyers have a choice.. you'll lose all your appstore purchases when you switch and having repurchase everything is going to dissuade anyone from switching. Even for the first time buyers, if all their friends are on iMessage, they practically have to buy an iPhone.

I don’t buy the lock in argument. Not because it’s false but because every thing has lock in to some extent. It’s just user preference, taste, and familiarity are stronger than losing app purchases. People used to completely repurchase their music collection every 10 years or so. Albums, 8 tracks, cassettes, CDs, etc. They value reliably that Apple is known for and the risk of changing and not liking another platform…

Apple has lock-in to a much stronger extent. There is very little lock-in between Android phones; you can easily switch brands.

And the point about iMessage and the other iWhatevers is important. Apple intentionally avoided interoperability. This goes beyond lock-in to contagion. I know people who didn't really want to get their young kids iPhones, because they weren't really old enough to be responsible for something so expensive. But they felt they had to do it anyhow because of the lack of interoperability. So they ended up buying multiple kid iPhones as the phones were lost, smashed, etc. I get that's not very expensive for the kind of people who hang out on HN, but it's real money to most.