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Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

nytimes.com

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Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#31

Post by causi »

The move is being criticized by many professors, politicians and advocates for academic freedom as a threat to tenure, which is intended to protect faculty from dismissal without just cause, allowing them to develop thoughts or ideas that may be unpopular.

Reap what you sow. Universities have spent twenty years crushing unpopular opinions with free speech zones and hate-mob controlled speaking appointments. They've attacked the concept of due process by booting students at the slightest unsubstantiated accusation of racism or sexual assault.

If this wasn't a disaster I'd be pissing myself laughing.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#32

Post by badRNG »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #28
shepardrtc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> privileged elite class Professors most certainly are not a "privileged elite class." They're research/teaching specialists. Your talking point sounds straight out of some right-wing website/tv channel.

> Professors most certainly are not a "privileged elite class." What is tenure if not a privilege? And if it isn't then what's the problem here? If tenure isn't something valuable then why are we discussing a story about it being taken away? EDIT: Just lol at the downvotes and the comments here. Lots of snark, personal attacks, but no one actually able to explain how tenure is not a privilege.

Ah yes, the "privileged elite class" consisting of underpaid professors, and the oppressed have finally risen up to turn the power to control speech back over to administrators where that power rightly belongs.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#33

Post by horns4lyfe »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #6

This just means they got rid of the concept of tenure. Albeit, I have heard it argued that tenure is not as relevant in the modern era of social media and twitter mobs, because academia is turning into a monoculture of thought through self-censorship. It is understandable that the more diverse taxpaying public would start to question the purpose of protecting the views of a privileged elite class when they themselves…

This won’t protect the views of the public though, it will just protect the views of the administrative class.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#34

Post by mywittyname »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #6

This just means they got rid of the concept of tenure. Albeit, I have heard it argued that tenure is not as relevant in the modern era of social media and twitter mobs, because academia is turning into a monoculture of thought through self-censorship. It is understandable that the more diverse taxpaying public would start to question the purpose of protecting the views of a privileged elite class when they themselves…

It used to be that twitter mobs couldn't get tenured professors fired, just have their guest lecture spots cancelled. Now they can have them fired.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#35

Post by RHSeeger »

seibelj wrote: post #16
mchusma wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think tenure is the main cause of this, but I don't believe that the university system is in very good shape. It appears quite broken (massively increased costs and decreasing evidence of efficacy). About 40+ years ago it was unquestionable that going to a university was the right choice for the vast majority. Now, it is far from clear.

Before the internet you needed a fully stocked library with excellent organization and archive retrieval, top quality professors who could (because of technology) teach at-most an auditorium full of people, and the ability to meet in person with other people knowledgable of the subject which previously required a centralized meeting place (the university). All of this is now provided with superior quality by the inte…

> All of this is now provided with superior quality by the internet. Now the only advantage of a university is signaling where you got accepted, networking with similar people for future jobs, becoming socialized by a culture of university-types, and showing you have the discipline to jump through 4 years of fairly arbitrary hoops. There is value to this, but is it worth $200k+?

You are leaving out some of the main benefits of going to a university. Specifically, that you have people to guide you through the process of learning; to point out the things that are important to learn, to be able to talk to them about the topics, etc. The internet has a lot of useful information, but there are things you don't get from it. Just like you don't master the English language by owning a dictionary.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#36

Post by 0xcafecafe »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

> Last month, the board published a draft policy that included a clause stating that a tenured professor could be removed for reasons “other than for cause,” which generated concern leading up to the approval of its final policy. > While that language is no longer in the approved policy, The controversial element was removed and the policy is now: you can be fired if you fail two annual reviews, make no progress agai…

>>>and your performance may now also be judged on the performance of your students.

What is stopping them from passing all students then thereby degrading the whole quality of education? Accountability is good but if other states don't implement this, GA is at a disadvantage as professors would prefer other states now. Among all disadvantages I can think of this rule, this is the most immediate.

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#37

Post by shepardrtc »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #28
shepardrtc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> privileged elite class Professors most certainly are not a "privileged elite class." They're research/teaching specialists. Your talking point sounds straight out of some right-wing website/tv channel.

> Professors most certainly are not a "privileged elite class." What is tenure if not a privilege? And if it isn't then what's the problem here? If tenure isn't something valuable then why are we discussing a story about it being taken away? EDIT: Just lol at the downvotes and the comments here. Lots of snark, personal attacks, but no one actually able to explain how tenure is not a privilege.

It's a guarantee that someone has been teaching the same thing for years can continue teaching the same thing when political winds shift. It's there so that people such as yourself can't replace them with those whose views they prefer. You classify professors as if they are all the same, which means you're creating a straw man to weaken the position as whole without actually providing any sort of specific point to argue about.

How else would you consider professors to be privileged? How do you consider them elite?

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#38

Post by jbrwn »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #20

I see a number of comments below hailing this as a good thing, one that will benefit students. These folks look at Universities as just another company and think this is normal. It is not. It is a terrible mistake and the GA system (and its students, and society) will be worse off for it. The notion of tenure wasn't developed to protect dead wood. It came about because historically it was often difficult to distingui…

I am inclined to agree with you but I am also somewhat conflicted due to recent events at my alma mater. It was just revealed that a tenured CS professor is the author of a hate filled blog that disparages women, lgbtq+, and minorities [1]. Ostensibly this guy is "protected" due to his tenure status. I am not sure this is really good for anyone.

[1] http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/computer-science-professor...

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#39

Post by threatofrain »

shepardrtc wrote: post #25
mensetmanusman wrote: post #6

This just means they got rid of the concept of tenure. Albeit, I have heard it argued that tenure is not as relevant in the modern era of social media and twitter mobs, because academia is turning into a monoculture of thought through self-censorship. It is understandable that the more diverse taxpaying public would start to question the purpose of protecting the views of a privileged elite class when they themselves…

> privileged elite class Professors most certainly are not a "privileged elite class." They're research/teaching specialists. Your talking point sounds straight out of some right-wing website/tv channel.

And in this case, we're talking about assigning power from the professional class to the executive class, whilst in the same breath bashing Twitter "mobs".

Re: Georgia’s University System Takes On Tenure

#40

Post by boringg »

jbrwn wrote: post #38
matthewdgreen wrote: post #20

I see a number of comments below hailing this as a good thing, one that will benefit students. These folks look at Universities as just another company and think this is normal. It is not. It is a terrible mistake and the GA system (and its students, and society) will be worse off for it. The notion of tenure wasn't developed to protect dead wood. It came about because historically it was often difficult to distingui…

I am inclined to agree with you but I am also somewhat conflicted due to recent events at my alma mater. It was just revealed that a tenured CS professor is the author of a hate filled blog that disparages women, lgbtq+, and minorities [1]. Ostensibly this guy is "protected" due to his tenure status. I am not sure this is really good for anyone. [1] http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/computer-science-professor...

Sample size of one shouldn't change your perspective on a whole class of people. There are bad actors in every group - and, while it is shameful his deeds, you can't castigate a whole class of people.
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