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An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

reuters.com

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Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#61

Post by pjc50 »

samhw wrote: post #9
rwmj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practically what happens if you're defrauded is your local police force will direct you to Action Fraud ( https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/ ) run by the City of London, who will note it down for "intelligence" but otherwise appear to do nothing whatsoever. Which is not too surprising - according to Wikipedia they have 80 staff. Edit: The reviews of Action Fraud speak for themselves: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/…

Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar. I worked at a (fairly technological) UK bank, where we did investigations into scams like this. There's really not much that can be done about most of these scams, other than taking your multivitamins to prevent cognitive decline.

> really not much that can be done about most of these scams

I'm surprised that in the surveillance state it's that easy to disappear with the money.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#62

Post by simonh »

Chris2048 wrote: post #34
simonh wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we lost access to many EU police databases and data sharing agreements. We negotiated continued access to some stuff, but there are still some significant gaps. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56529359

How are these databases used to police/punish the stereotypical Nigerian scammer?

I don't think that's a reasonable question, not all scammers are Nigerian. Some are based in the UK, others in Europe. Also the EU had data sharing agreements and collaboration outreach with police forces all over the world that we also lost access to.

That's one of the complications with our data sharing with the EU; they have agreements to share data with non-EU countries on the basis that their data is only shared within the EU, which we are now not. Therefore the EU can't grant us access to databases containing that data until we/they have permission from these other countries. We will, and are sorting it out but it's going to take time. Brexit was always going to come with some costs, that should be obvious even if you think on balance it was the right choice, and this is one of them.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#63

Post by bb101 »

rwmj wrote: post #41
happyflower wrote: post #33

Why can a 78-year old widow's life savings be managed through an online bank system? Bring back local branch offices where people have to manage their high-risk accounts in-person.

Banks make no money from retail customers as it is, they certainly aren't going to be reopening branches any time soon.

That's where effective legislation and regulation can play a role. It's not as if other parts of the same bank aren't making money hand over fist.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#64

Post by pfranz »

Angostura wrote: post #50

I had a long argument with HSBC UK Security a few years ago where I was completely unable to get the to understand they were putting their customers at risk. In the event that something looked strange on your account the 'HSBC Fraud Department' would text you and ask them to call you on a phone number. A phone number that didn't appear anywhere on their website. "We don't want it public. OK,well at least put it on a…

US credit card companies aren't any better. I recently had a similar "fraud alert." The company ditched travel notices in 2016 claiming their AI was good enough to replace it. A few weeks after traveling I had a very small purchase flagged (under $20 at a place like Target). When I called the number they asked me for my complete credit card number, social security number, they didn't know my phone number or email and had to clarify which was my first and last name. They then asked me to photograph my drivers license and text it to them.

When I told them I wasn't comfortable doing this, they reiterated that this was the only way my credit card would be restored immediately and once I hung up the phone I would no longer have this option. They did give me another way to verify, they would send me an email to a web portal I could upload the photos to. After uploading I would have to wait 7-10 business days for them to review and restore my card.

Thankfully, I had another credit card I could use. I did submit via the web form after doing my best to make sure it was legit. Weeks later my credit card wasn't restored. When I later called them, it was immediately restored after a few simple questions. I sent an email to their security department describing how weird and sketchy this process was and I never got a response.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#65

Post by mdp2021 »

robotmay wrote: post #26
jonatron wrote: post #19

Part of the problem is too many databases have been compromised. If a scammer calls up and knows all the victim's details, the scammer is much more convincing and the victim is much more likely to be fooled. As for why the UK is a hot spot, I could guess it's to do with the phone system? I get loads of spam calls, but I have no way to find out what company or person the caller phone numbers are used by.

Yeah spam calls are a nuisance in this country. Oddly I've gotten far fewer recently. My technique for answering unknown numbers seems to get me removed from a lot of lists: Pick up the phone, but stay silent. If it's an auto-dialler, it usually disconnects automatically after 4 seconds, and seemingly gets you removed from the list (as either a dead line or a machine I guess). Sometimes this catches legitimate call c…

You do not use caller number review websites?

In some cultures, most callers (private individuals) would not start speaking themselves before hearing a sign of presence from the other side: you filter out auto-diallers, but also contacts you did not have in your address book.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#66

Post by flyinghamster »

Angostura wrote: post #50

I had a long argument with HSBC UK Security a few years ago where I was completely unable to get the to understand they were putting their customers at risk. In the event that something looked strange on your account the 'HSBC Fraud Department' would text you and ask them to call you on a phone number. A phone number that didn't appear anywhere on their website. "We don't want it public. OK,well at least put it on a…

And don't get me started on banks sending out emails chock full of "Click this link!" It's like they're setting people up to get phished.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#67

Post by pjc50 »

robotmay wrote: post #16

Ooh we're still the capital of something. Personally I think this comes down to ineffective education in many cases. Yes, some of these scams are getting quite impressively advanced, and they tend to target older people who are declining in cognitive ability, but so often the victims are absolutely unwilling to admit they were a bit stupid. It's always someone else's fault, like the bank, or the police, or Facebook,…

> Perhaps there's also a cultural aspect to why the British are so easy to scam?

Ongoing transition from "high trust" to "low trust" society. People don't yet expect to be scammed, but trust in institutions and the rest of the public is falling.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#68

Post by mysterypie »

What's always missing from stories like this is how the crooks get the money out. Considering that all Western governments have achieved total surveillance on our banking and made it impossible to have anonymous bank accounts, I'd like to see a detailed analysis about why they can't follow the money and see who gets it.

Every scenario I can think of seems like it should be either traceable or actionable.

Scenario 1: The crooks cashed out the victim's $270,000 at ATMs. That means they set up 270 fraudulent bank accounts, each tied to a separate ATM card, and each with a withdrawal limit of $1000. There should be a cornucopia of leads to follow. It's a major hassle to set up a bank account. You need an address at which to receive each one of those 270 ATM cards. Did the bank(s) send 270 cards to one single mailing address? Were these online accounts or did the crooks visit each bank with fake IDs? What did the surveillance cameras at the ATMs show? If they hired duped people to cash out at the ATMs, can't the police catch at least one of those persons and continue following the money?

Scenario 2: The crooks create one master British bank account into which the stolen money is funneled (say $1,000,000) and then they transfer the money to overseas to Third World Bank. Why doesn't the British bank (or the British government) demand that the $1,000,000 be returned by Third World Bank? It's now the Third World country's job to track down the crooks if they want to. If they won't return the funds, they get blacklisted by the British banking system.

Perhaps there are very good answers about why and how the crooks can get away with it but it seems so implausible when money has been so traceable for the last 20 or 30 years (except for certain cryptocurrencies but that's recent).

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#69

Post by BiteCode_dev »

Johnyma22 wrote: post #5

Britain being where the victims are, not the criminals. Some reasons why Brits might be so so vulnerable: * Major: English speaking so common to be targeted from less affluent ex-commonwealth countries. * Major: Ageing population have most of the wealth. * Major: Lots of vulnerable victims online and relatively high social media engagement. * Major: Little fear of retaliation (other than Jim Browning). The UK is havi…

It's also because the britanic banking system decided that, on the safety / usability balance, they would choose usability.

Banking in britanic banking system is way easier than anywhere else. I remember when I was a student, they sent a bus to the university, so we could just hop in, arrive at the bank, and open an account as an immigrant in 15 minutes.

Try to do that in France, you would get your card, what, next month at best?

It was only a matter of time before the criminals realize the door was unlocked and feast on them.

In fact, I'm expecting Australia to be next, for the very same reasons.

Have you tried to do any paper work in Australia ? It's. So. Simple. Seriously, for a french, it's a video game on easy mode, and you never leave the tutorial.

But there is trust everywhere.

They are either going down, or make the system harder to work with.

Re: An unprecedented wave of online bank fraud is hitting Britain

#70

Post by ryanlol »

mysterypie wrote: post #68

What's always missing from stories like this is how the crooks get the money out. Considering that all Western governments have achieved total surveillance on our banking and made it impossible to have anonymous bank accounts, I'd like to see a detailed analysis about why they can't follow the money and see who gets it. Every scenario I can think of seems like it should be either traceable or actionable. Scenario 1:…

There are organizations creating thousands of bank accounts to cash out transactions like this for a percentage. They use fake IDs, there’s no way to stop them.

Catching the people opening the accounts leads you to nowhere, they rarely even know their bosses.

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