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UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

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Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#61

The video has now been restored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk Worth a watch. Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, and without human check? MP says: “This is an outrageous attack on free speech. Throughout the pandemic we've seen blatant attempts by Big Tech to silence opposition voices challenging the conventional wisdom. This episode serves as a further example of the wor…

> Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI,

Imo that would be the worst, because a human doing it can be corrected (more training, revised check-lists etc.), but afaik AI moderating in its current form is a black hole and it will remain a black hole for the foreseeable future.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#62
post #60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also think you should be able to freely share child pornography on HN as part of your free speech? Or is that not how it works at all?

Do you think that the government should force HN to host child pornography and not remove it if someone uploads it? Or is that not how it works at all?

Of course not, the government is free to pass whatever laws regulating whatever kind of content is allowed, as they should and have been doing. What is your point again?

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#63
post #42
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me how this makes sense when they are letting insulate britain block motorways? Like which protests are they trying to stop? I assume blocking motorways is illegal already, yet the police are doing nothing, which is leading dangerously to vigilante justice as per some videos, which is only a question of time before it turns really violent. Wtf is the UK government doing? Why do they need more p…

Blocking motorways is probably illegal - the trouble is, the police arrest people and then they just go ahead and do it again. (Also, I think the Supreme Court decided that the law on blocking highways didn't apply to people doing it in the name of protest so it's far from clear that those people could be convicted - the court has shown activist tendencies in general, something that some pundits predicted would happe…

The SC didn't rule that the obstruction of the highway offence didn't apply in cases of protest. The question is whether the exception in the Act applies:

“if a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence” (Highways Act, 1980, s.137).

They ruled that, under some circumstances, 'proportionately' exercising the right to protest could qualify as a lawful excuse. In the case in point, the protesters had blocked one of multiple entrances to an arms fair, in circumstances when only arms fair traffic was likely to even notice the protest (it was an entryway to the Excel centre). Also, the protest was of short duration.

The consequence of the decision is that the question of lawfulness is now case-by-case, as it is with other highway obstructions. There is essentially no chance that protesters blocking motorways are going to escape a conviction on the basis of this decision. They're also likely to be given post-conviction orders making repetition imprisonable.

FWIW I pretty strongly support the campaign's expressed aims, but reckon that this is some of the shittest praxis I've seen from protest group. Like the previous stunt by a bunch of XR-aligned people of gluing themselves to public transport, it's got a tenuous link with the aim pursued and is going to cost their cause vastly more public support than it can hope to gain.

[see https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/offences-during-protes...]

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#64
post #61

The video has now been restored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk Worth a watch. Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, and without human check? MP says: “This is an outrageous attack on free speech. Throughout the pandemic we've seen blatant attempts by Big Tech to silence opposition voices challenging the conventional wisdom. This episode serves as a further example of the wor…

> Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, Imo that would be the worst, because a human doing it can be corrected (more training, revised check-lists etc.), but afaik AI moderating in its current form is a black hole and it will remain a black hole for the foreseeable future.

AI can easily be turned off.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#65
post #25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PeerTube doesn't scale when most of the user base nowadays is on mobile, with asymmetric connections that have data caps. (which happens to be the real world)

UK Mobile Data for most is unlimited. A few will have a data cap but those will be unlikely to watch videos on mobile.

https://www.finder.com/uk/mobile-internet-statistics https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997904/mobile-data-plan-i...

If "for most is unlimited" you mean "most don't use up all their data", then yes. If you mean "most have unlimited data plans", then see links above.

EDIT: apologies for the statista link, it wasn't paywalling me when I first looked: it shows about 12% have unlimited data.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Govnt must stop the erosion of free speech online. That starts with looking again at the wholly inadequate proposals in the Online Safety Bill” why don't they (govt) open a public video site for anyone to upload to, so they don't have to mess with private sites? forcing private entities to host things they dont want to sounds like a huge can of worms

I haven't checked but wasn't the Online safety bill the one which implied all kinds of age verification checks which either weren't feasible or, at a minimum, were a goldmine for identify fraud.

Many people watching this Bill take the view is that it is being used to slip back in age verification, as it attempted to do so, but failed in the Digital Economy Act 2017. In that Act, Part 3 was about a porn sites requiring an age verification proposal; not just declaring you age in some form but linking to some official data from which your age could be verified (like a credit card number). This section got dropped from the Act before it was passed and has led to a course case between the Govt and age verification companies. Now it looks like the Online Safety Bill is being used to repeal the Digital Economy Act 2017 and replace it with this new Act where the age verification requirement is slipped back in.

The Age Verification industry is lobbying hard to see their "investments" pay off this time, after being disappointed in 2017.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#67
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking motorways is probably illegal - the trouble is, the police arrest people and then they just go ahead and do it again. (Also, I think the Supreme Court decided that the law on blocking highways didn't apply to people doing it in the name of protest so it's far from clear that those people could be convicted - the court has shown activist tendencies in general, something that some pundits predicted would happe…

the court has shown activist tendencies [citation needed]

I mean, it's almost identical to the old Judicial Committee of the House of Lords, but with different hats. They've always done a fair amount of development of the common law. The court under Baroness Hale was maybe a little more vigorous at that than usual, the current regime maybe a little less than usual. I don't see any of it as outside the usual bounds of British jurisprudence.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#68

"Freedom is the reason the UK has had such a long an illustrious history." I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to hang on to would disagree. The Online Safety Bill he mentions in his outrage at YouTube taking down his speech is itself an attack on freedoms. He's also part of a political party working to criminalise protests they disagree with.

>I'm sure the inhabitants of the many countries the British invaded and continue to hang on to would disagree. Propose one colony where the indigenous society was freer

Ok I'll play - Ireland?

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#69
post #61

The video has now been restored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VidUXZjzNVk Worth a watch. Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, and without human check? MP says: “This is an outrageous attack on free speech. Throughout the pandemic we've seen blatant attempts by Big Tech to silence opposition voices challenging the conventional wisdom. This episode serves as a further example of the wor…

> Should we "assume the best" by assuming this was taken down by AI, Imo that would be the worst, because a human doing it can be corrected (more training, revised check-lists etc.), but afaik AI moderating in its current form is a black hole and it will remain a black hole for the foreseeable future.

I agree and should have said "should we assume the best of intentions by humans". Delegating decisions on freedom of speech to AI is a flawed and dangerous path.

Re: UK MP speech about freedoms censored by YouTube

#70
Smash the tech giants into many little pieces and their market power is reduced to the point that it really is private businesses and none of this matters. youtube_v1 blocks your video, touyube_v2 or v3 or whatever will have it because they are separate and not a cartel as that would be illegal.

The problem is facbook, google, apple, microsoft, etc etc are all vastly too big. If they need to be monolithic (they don't, but let's entertain the argument ) then treat them as a utility the same way we treat natural monopolies of drinking water distribution. Nationalisation is one way. Regulated return and heavily regulated business practise is another. Generally hacking it up into pieces and letting the pieces remain private is preferred when that can be done effectively.

Nobody cares that NBC didn't cover this speech. It's not interesting as a censorship question even if the omission is following the explicit political dictates of their owners (or staff). That's a better place to be all around.

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