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MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

moonhome.io

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Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#71

Post by jwr »

boolean wrote: post #19

> Currently, MoonHome is a single-man operation, 100% self-funded. I wouldn't highlight this on the homepage as I don't think it's a plus. I personally wouldn't want my dev environment to depend on a single person operation.

Single founder of a self-funded business here.

If you'd rather depend on a larger company, you have to take into account that:

1. The costs will be much higher, because somebody needs to pay for all those salaries, benefits and offices. Hope you are ready to cover those.

2. It's just a façade anyway: a "serious company" makes us feel all warm and fuzzy, but can fold at any time without warning.

3. If it's a VC-funded company, there is no eventual exit outcome that is good for you as a customer: the business will either get acquired (with the service you are using being shut down or folded into something else), go bankrupt, or in the extremely rare case do an IPO (the service you are using will then degrade as the company will be adding mass-uptake features and upselling, see Dropbox). In other words, you aren't really a customer: you are growth material for the company, to be used and discarded once goals are achieved.

In contrast to that, single-founder businesses can be stable, mature, and sustainable over many years, much more so than services offered by larger companies.

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#72

Post by gallexme »

Xevi wrote: post #60
freemint wrote: post #26

I find the pricing structure surprisingly similar to Hetzner Cloud. There are the same RAM and CPU core tiers running the same AMD EPYC 2nd Gen (one to one and onto mapping). Except prices for storage is almost double. And hourly costs are higher which is kinda hidden by not assuming 24/7 operation compared to Hetzners monthly pricing. You will pay less with Hetzner as they also offer hourly billing. More smoking gun…

Where exactly do you find these prices in Hetzner Cloud? They appear to be at a minimum twice as expensive to me. A 16 vCPU and 32GB RAM server costs €59.38 per month. If you want dedicated vCPU then you'll have to pay €166.48 per month.

They seem to automatically unprovision the server when not using them. The mlnly prices listed are

"price estimate based on average usage of 160 hours per month."

If you chdkc the hourly price They about twice as expensive as hetzner clouds offerings

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#73

Post by gallexme »

smackeyacky wrote: post #40
avidphantasm wrote: post #24

Hey guys, there are these things called “workstations.” Have heard of them?

Yeah, I don't understand the thinking behind this product when you can buy a recently decommissioned Dell, HP or SuperMicro server with a pile of memory and a couple of fast Xeons in it, load up your Linux of choice and go to town with QEMU. This beast here has two ethernet ports as well, so one is dedicated to the I/O for the QEMU VMs and they appear on the local network as actual machines via a bridge. Stick an old…

god i wish my power costs were not 0.38€/kwh for me renting servers is cheaper all around(https://www.hetzner.com/de/dedicated-rootserver/ax41-nvme)

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#74

Post by freemint »

blunte wrote: post #64
freemint wrote: post #26

I find the pricing structure surprisingly similar to Hetzner Cloud. There are the same RAM and CPU core tiers running the same AMD EPYC 2nd Gen (one to one and onto mapping). Except prices for storage is almost double. And hourly costs are higher which is kinda hidden by not assuming 24/7 operation compared to Hetzners monthly pricing. You will pay less with Hetzner as they also offer hourly billing. More smoking gun…

> More smoking guns What is your agenda? What do you have against this guy and his service he's offering? You have other comments that seem negative toward this service or its creator. Heroku is "just the Amazon cloud", but at a higher price. Of course it offers additional features which some people find beneficial enough to justify the higher price compared to bare AWS. Likewise, if MoonHome is providing attractive…

> What is your agenda?

I just like Hetzner a lot and instantly recognized the pricing hardware tiering structure. I was a bit suspicious how the could sell it cheaper per month as Hetzner (which excited me) until I noticed that by monthly they mean when you shut down your machine every night.

I also couldn't find anything on their website that says where they are hosting it.

As I like Hetzner fan I am sad that there wasn't a reference to Hetzner. The website to me advertises Hetzner Clouds features a lot more then service they provide on top.

Hetzner is a good place and I also used that fact in another reply to say that this service is not unrealiable because it runs on someones else's infrastructure.

I think that the person considering subscribing should know it runs on Hetzner as that has Latency implications of the services are in Gunzenhausen, Falkenstein or Helsinki. Hetzner is also a regional company for me as I lived quiet close to them

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#75

Post by freemint »

blunte wrote: post #69
a254613e wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm missing something from the home page, but which additional features does it offer exactly? Automatic system updates, which is possible to do with just normal linux distributions anyway? I mean it says "MoonHome is not a browser-based cloud IDE. You get full access to a remote server over SSH.". So you get ssh access, just like you would with a VPS. All I see on the main page as far as technical functional…

From what I've read on the main page plus some of the documentation pages is that it gives you - preconfigured dev environment with some tools already installed (using asdf, which is easy to add more tools with) - preconfigured firewall (which of course is easy to do yourself, but it's done already) - instructions on how to do some of the ssh tunneling things necessary to connect your local apps/tools with the remote…

It is awesome that you parsed all that out. I wish those were advertised on the front page clearer instead of Hetzner Clouds server pricing structure for a higher price (I would say some upcharge like at most almost double) with a little bit misleading pricing. I was mislead for 5 min. Maybe a switch over the table between X hours per month and 24/7 could make that clear.

Also scouring many cloud providers and finding the most performance per dollar one is also a service the person provided once. If they will always to try to get the best deal for their customers, let them know that.

I am not sure how many of those features could be implemented by just a docker container or something similar.

> If you roll your own with a VPS, then you do have some setup to do if you want to harden and configure it.

I actually considered doing something similar using Hetzners cloud API once. An end point for distributed computing and Hetzner was place that seemed to cheapest performance/dollar with hourly billing. [1]

[1] https://github.com/freemin7/discount-cloud-geekbench-5

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#76

Post by freemint »

jmnicolas wrote: post #54
freemint wrote: post #26

I find the pricing structure surprisingly similar to Hetzner Cloud. There are the same RAM and CPU core tiers running the same AMD EPYC 2nd Gen (one to one and onto mapping). Except prices for storage is almost double. And hourly costs are higher which is kinda hidden by not assuming 24/7 operation compared to Hetzners monthly pricing. You will pay less with Hetzner as they also offer hourly billing. More smoking gun…

What would be wrong if they're reselling Hetzner? Obviously the price difference come from whatever they include on top.

There is nothing bad with Hetzner being resold. But people should be aware that Hetzner is running underneath, so they can be informed about latency concerns, compare reliability and that these servers are running on green energy.

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#77

Post by freemint »

KronisLV wrote: post #61
jmnicolas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be wrong if they're reselling Hetzner? Obviously the price difference come from whatever they include on top.

Actually wondering about this as well, currently considering making my own SaaS, though it's not like there's that many approaches to do billing. In my eyes, a pretty good option would be to automate VPS provisioning and allow each client to order a particular amount of resources, with the software installed on top of them. That way, multi tenancy can be limited to services that handle provisioning, billing and setup…

There is not and if Hetzner would have been mentioned on the website I wouldn't have done detective work to find out it is hosted and I wouldn't have written any messages. Maybe there is something with branding that they can't tell they run on Hetzner but then they should work that out with Hetzner orbtgey are trying to hide. Anyway I saved people a registration and possibly renting an instance to figure out where they are.

If you are mostly reselling compute and storage be transparent where you get it from.

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#78

Post by freemint »

ithkuil wrote: post #62
freemint wrote: post #26

I find the pricing structure surprisingly similar to Hetzner Cloud. There are the same RAM and CPU core tiers running the same AMD EPYC 2nd Gen (one to one and onto mapping). Except prices for storage is almost double. And hourly costs are higher which is kinda hidden by not assuming 24/7 operation compared to Hetzners monthly pricing. You will pay less with Hetzner as they also offer hourly billing. More smoking gun…

I created an account to play with it and noticed that when updating the ubuntu packages I see it uses the hetzner mirror > Get:1 https://mirror.hetzner.com/ubuntu/packages focal-updates/main amd64 libpam0g amd64 1.3.1-5ubuntu4.3 [55.4 kB] and the IP address is owned by "Hetzner Online GmbH"

Thanks this is as I expected. Have fun with your instance! I wasn't prepare to setup spending money so I tried to figure out where it was hosted without buying an instance.

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#79

Post by d33 »

freemint wrote: post #74
blunte wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More smoking guns What is your agenda? What do you have against this guy and his service he's offering? You have other comments that seem negative toward this service or its creator. Heroku is "just the Amazon cloud", but at a higher price. Of course it offers additional features which some people find beneficial enough to justify the higher price compared to bare AWS. Likewise, if MoonHome is providing attractive…

> What is your agenda? I just like Hetzner a lot and instantly recognized the pricing hardware tiering structure. I was a bit suspicious how the could sell it cheaper per month as Hetzner (which excited me) until I noticed that by monthly they mean when you shut down your machine every night. I also couldn't find anything on their website that says where they are hosting it. As I like Hetzner fan I am sad that there…

I ran a little code on this comment:

    >>> sorted({w: comment.split().count(w) for w in comment.split() if comment.split().count(w) > 1}.items(), key=lambda x: -x[1])[:3]
    [('I', 9), ('Hetzner', 7), ('that', 7)]
7 sentences, 7 occurrences of "Hetzner". It really does read like a CEO-optimized advertisement.

Re: MoonHome: Remote Development Environment

#80

Post by g051051 »

gtirloni wrote: post #56
haarts wrote: post #2

I've been doing a lot of this lately. I got the cheapest Macbook Air and SSH into my machine at the office. Tmux attach and go! Lag is never an issue for me. I could get used to this.

> Lag is never an issue for me Is that because you have extremely good latency to the VM or because delays while typing don't bother you? Just wanted to clarify as latency (especially over VPN) is what keeps me away from these solutions.

Typing lag...that reminds me of something I saw in the 90's. Someone was trying to figure out a production problem and asked for help. I sat down at their computer, and was trying to use their terminal shell window (HP/UX). It was terribly laggy, worse than I'd ever seen before. I asked if it was OK to exit and open a new window and they said OK. So I typed exit to close the telnet connection, then exit again to exit the terminal...but it didn't go away. So I typed exit again. and got another shell prompt. At that point I realized that they had been hopping from machine to machine without exiting. It turned out that the lag was from 22 nested telnet commands!
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