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Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

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Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#31

Post by codeslush »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #14
corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

"tend to get ahead", "trend seems obvious", "fly in the face..." -- I've witnessed a lot of "intelligent" people in my life, and a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum. Intelligent or not, I would suggest that people who "tend to get ahead" are those that ENJOY and are HAPPY with life. I would go so far as to say that IQ doesn't play a part in this outcome - and may make it more difficult to achieve. It's all about the unit of measurement, which I believe is consistent with the article's intent.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#32

Post by bahman2000 »

baddox wrote: post #5

I would ask Mr. Asimov: Do you think that, given a reasonable amount of training, your "intelligence" could be applied toward automobile repair? Or do you truly believe that your mechanic friend had a different sort of "intelligence" that made him better at car repair, while your brand of "intelligence" lent itself toward academia?

I second this one. Mr. Asimov could easily become a mechanic if he were to apply himself. His mechanic, most probably, would never become an academician.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#33

Post by pjscott »

billconan wrote: post #29

When I was in high school, I topped my class. Some of my classmates started to call me about questions in their quizzes. I could remember the exact descriptions of the quiz questions back in few months. So when they asked me about certain question, I didn't need my exam papers. They told me the number of a question, I could give both the question and the answer. I didn't remember the question on purpose, I simply did…

Genes are a lot more complicated than that. Unless you get some really blatant genetic problem, like Down Syndrome, there's a very heavy environmental component to how you turn out. And that's exactly what you want, isn't it? You want your life not to be predetermined, or even predictable -- and that seems to be the way things really are!

Of course, some people do wind up with, say, a genetic predisposition to alcoholism or depression. But if you have something like that, wouldn't you like to know about it? If you know that you're predisposed to alcoholism (or whatever) then you can do something about it, instead of just letting it happen to you.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#34

Post by pjscott »

codeslush wrote: post #31
hackinthebochs wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

"tend to get ahead", "trend seems obvious", "fly in the face..." -- I've witnessed a lot of "intelligent" people in my life, and a lot of people on the other end of the spectrum. Intelligent or not, I would suggest that people who "tend to get ahead" are those that ENJOY and are HAPPY with life. I would go so far as to say that IQ doesn't play a part in this outcome - and may make it more difficult to achieve. It's a…

How confident are you in your intuition on this matter? IQ does seem to be significantly correlated with a bunch of things that fall under the general umbrella of "getting ahead in life", like income and job performance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ#Social_outcomes

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#35

Post by adulau »

I especially enjoyed the final part "Because you're so goddamned educated, doc, I knew you couldn't be very smart."

If you think about it, it's very similar when you try something new that breaks the conventional boundaries. If you have a huge education, you tend to avoid it because you usually learned this before. Sometimes, you need to ditch your education, to try something not conventionally accepted. In other words, education is key to find the things you should experiment.

It's like in art you have to know the rules to break them into an useful way.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#36

Post by bpd1069 »

IQ-like tests reward speed, and as such all alternative/possible answers are not explored. In his story, he failed because he quickly devised the pattern from the deaf-mute and extrapolated gestures as the method of communication.

Deliberative thought is penalized in IQ-like tests and that is, in my opinion, a huge mistake.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#37

Post by zb »

corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

There's a very good interview here: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/200808... with Jim Flynn (discoverer of the Flynn Effect - essentially IQ inflation) where he talks about how we value different kinds of intelligence and what IQ tests are actually measuring. It's worth listening to if you are at all interested in the subject. (Bonus: RMS!)

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#39

Post by palish »

unwind wrote: post #38

Someone, please fix the spelling in the title, incredibly grating. It's "Isaac".

Who cares, and why? (Honest question.)

He certainly doesn't; he's dead. And everyone knows who we're referring to, so there's no ambiguity. Everything seems to indicate "it doesn't matter", and yet apparently it does to some. So why?

A nice example of how people are inherently illogical...

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#40

Post by palish »

pjscott wrote: post #33
billconan wrote: post #29

When I was in high school, I topped my class. Some of my classmates started to call me about questions in their quizzes. I could remember the exact descriptions of the quiz questions back in few months. So when they asked me about certain question, I didn't need my exam papers. They told me the number of a question, I could give both the question and the answer. I didn't remember the question on purpose, I simply did…

Genes are a lot more complicated than that. Unless you get some really blatant genetic problem, like Down Syndrome, there's a very heavy environmental component to how you turn out. And that's exactly what you want, isn't it? You want your life not to be predetermined, or even predictable -- and that seems to be the way things really are! Of course, some people do wind up with, say, a genetic predisposition to alcoho…

Apologies, but this attitude is quite annoying: "As long as you're healthy and a hard worker, you too can be a genius! It just takes time!"

If anyone bothered to try to answer the question "do genetics matter much?" by examining real-world prodigies, they would be forced to conclude "Yes, genetics are equally important to upbringing/environment".

Read through this, then claim genetics don't matter:

"This was Richard Feynman nearing the crest of his powers. At twenty-three ... there was no physicist on earth who could match his exuberant command over the native materials of theoretical science. It was not just a facility at mathematics (though it had become clear ... that the mathematical machinery emerging from the Wheeler–Feynman collaboration was beyond Wheeler's own ability). Feynman seemed to possess a frightening ease with the substance behind the equations, like Albert Einstein at the same age, like the Soviet physicist Lev Landau—but few others."

— James Gleick, Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman

Fun fact: Feynman mastered Calculus by age 15. He didn't just learn it; he derived it himself.

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