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Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

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21–30 of 399 posts

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very outdated information no rush on that -- we have another 21,000 years of half-life to talk about it, right?

Outdated information is quite relevant for nuclear power plants. Fukushima was older than Chernobyl. Every time someone tells me how safe modern power plants are I think "great, now get rid of all the old ones".

> great, now get rid of all the old ones

And burn some more coal in the meantime.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#22
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being the front line of the Cold War, while both the US and USSR developed battle plans for where nuclear weapons would be detonated in your country during a war, probably lends shades to the debate that aren't present in other countries. (Yes, nuclear power / nuclear weapons, but in the 70s that wasn't a clear distinction)

They were close enough (and downwind-enough) to experience direct effects from Chernobyl, no? Destroying contaminated produce, taking iodine pills as a precaution, that sort of thing, and, I'd guess, worries, for a time, about much worse consequences before the emergency was contained.

And lockdowns. First lockdowns in my life. We weren't even allowed to play in the garden.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#23

Biggest issue with older nuclear plants is the material degradation as a consequence of radiation, after a some decades of constant irradiation steel can become as brittle as glass, which is not only not reversible, but it also means that the actual rebar and concrete surrounding the core becomes damaged and the only way to replace that is to rebuild the whole core I am rather against setting up new reactors, given t…

Safety concerns are moot when the coal alternative will kill orders of magnitude more people.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#24
Michael Shellenberger's TED talk from 2017, "Why I changed my mind about nuclear power", is still relevant: https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_shellenberger_why_i_change...

He also has a great Substack where he writes on a variety of topics, including nuclear power. He just wrote an article titled "Nations Go Nuclear As Prices Spike & Renewables Fail" that is timely: https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/nations-go-nucle...

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very outdated information no rush on that -- we have another 21,000 years of half-life to talk about it, right?

Outdated information is quite relevant for nuclear power plants. Fukushima was older than Chernobyl. Every time someone tells me how safe modern power plants are I think "great, now get rid of all the old ones".

Getting rid of the old ones is quite difficult to do due to all the misinformation and public perception. A lot of that shaped by outdated information.

So instead of building new, safer power plants that will actually help us fight climate change, many places are still running old power plants as they can't afford to shut them down. There are still RMBK (Chernobyl-like) plants running today!

Mind you, Fukushima was not the only power plant that was subject to an earthquake and a tsunami. All others safely shutdown. Actually Fukushima shutdown too - and would have survived if not by the tsunami and some braindead decisions. Fukushima is like a Ford Model T that's thrown into a highway accident. It should have been replaced way before the accident.

Germany should be leading the effort here. Maybe they could take a page from France.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very outdated information no rush on that -- we have another 21,000 years of half-life to talk about it, right?

Outdated information is quite relevant for nuclear power plants. Fukushima was older than Chernobyl. Every time someone tells me how safe modern power plants are I think "great, now get rid of all the old ones".

Wouldn't that be better than the gigatonnes of CO2 we keep emitting into the atmosphere?

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#28
post #3

I'm a US expat living in Germany, and boy is the anti-nuclear sentiment real here. There have even been fights - physical altercations - between Green Party members at rallies for having differing viewpoints about nuclear. Unfortunately, it seems those who are against are working with very outdated information and 'tropes' w.r.t. nuclear safety and whatnot. Quite unfortunate.

I wonder how much of that is supported by Russian govt, because Germany is one of the largest customer for their oil and gas.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#29
post #23

Biggest issue with older nuclear plants is the material degradation as a consequence of radiation, after a some decades of constant irradiation steel can become as brittle as glass, which is not only not reversible, but it also means that the actual rebar and concrete surrounding the core becomes damaged and the only way to replace that is to rebuild the whole core I am rather against setting up new reactors, given t…

Safety concerns are moot when the coal alternative will kill orders of magnitude more people.

All of the above is politically moot as long as leaders and parties can get away with bandying around fantasy land policies of running major industrial economies exclusively on renewables.

Perhaps this story is a tiny glimmer of hope that one day it won't be possible to get away with that cop out. We've wasted a lot of decades just to get this far though.

Re: Intellectuals urge Germany to keep nuclear plants online

#30
post #3

I'm a US expat living in Germany, and boy is the anti-nuclear sentiment real here. There have even been fights - physical altercations - between Green Party members at rallies for having differing viewpoints about nuclear. Unfortunately, it seems those who are against are working with very outdated information and 'tropes' w.r.t. nuclear safety and whatnot. Quite unfortunate.

Nuclear was also promoted as save decades before Chernobyl and Fukushima by the lobbies. So is there a guarantee that it is safe this time around?
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