Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway? • Hacker News Board

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#21

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #14

corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

[deleted]

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#22

Post by aik » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 2:54 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #14

corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

I think it's partly because the counter examples are many. It's a common activity to quickly judge someone with extraordinary insight as "genius", when the case could be that they slaved for more hours than one would ever believe before the insight came.

Even Alfred Binet was against creating any sort of correlation between intelligence and IQ. His main objective was to create a test that would evaluate where students needed the most help, rather than draw any correlation on intelligence which so many love to do.

What has become clear from the studies I've read recently is that most IQ tests test fluid intelligence (which isn't fixed, but can definitely be improved) and doesn't even attempt to test for overall potential (a factor that I would consider MUCH more valuable). Nonetheless, many believe there is a factor (called 'g') that does speak for one's overall "intelligence", however most IQ tests aren't built to test it.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#23

Post by javert » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 2:57 AM UTC

xm1994 wrote: post #4

It's a nice story. I agree with his point about testing. But it seems to me he's just apologizing for his intelligence and education. I'd bet Dr. Asimov would make one hell of a auto repair mechanic if he dedicated his life to it. I'd let him work on my cars!

Hell, I'd probably let him work on my car even if he were terrible at it. (Then again, maybe not - what a waste of talent that would be!)

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#24

Post by grandalf » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 3:14 AM UTC

I think this essay makes a good point but largely misses the mark.

Much of what the vast majority of people do with their brains is a biproduct of training, and little of it can be attributed to intelligence.

In most fields there is some combination of motivation and intelligence necessary for success. It is my view that an IQ of 110-120 is more than sufficient for abundant success in nearly any field. 40% of the population falls in this range.

So Azimov's "discovery" that his mechanic possesses intelligence even though he lacks education just illustrates Azimov's own biases. I'd argue that the mechanic, if properly cultivated, would likely have been able to excel in a wide variety of careers thought to require far more intelligence than being a mechanic appears to Azimov to require.

Also, Azimov's description of the mechanic's work style suggests that he found it oddly crude but appreciated it in a mystical sense, as if it was so far removed from his own abilities as to be unfathomable, which is absurd.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#25

Post by mynameishere » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 3:24 AM UTC

Headline: Man with extraordinary high IQ becomes extraordinary author.

I'm not sure what his point is. Intelligence, by even the crudest methods of measurement, is the core human trait, and will help determine every important thing every human does. He assumed a mechanic was stupid because he seemed low-rent. Headline: The mechanic probably wasn't stupid in the first place.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#26

Post by chegra84 » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 4:08 AM UTC

I think the problem with IQ is the labelling. They give somebody Genius status without ever having to produce genius status work. In a place like america, there are suppose to be like 3 million genius(cut off 1%). I really haven't felt the impact of the many, just only a few.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#27

Post by Jach » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 4:35 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #14

corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

It is interesting. On the one hand, very few people argue that a person with measured IQ of 80 won't have a hard time in life. On the other hand people dismiss 120 people and pretend IQ doesn't matter. (And it seems a lot of this group is made of 120+ people.) I figure it's just a form of social signaling, a signal of false modesty so the 100s still like you.

Though personally I don't see that much difference in the intelligence level of a village idiot and Von Neumann, they're both humans and both way beyond an ant. I'm looking forward to a species that makes modern humans as a whole, from dumbest to smartest, appear as an ant to them.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#28

Post by al-king » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 5:12 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #14

corin_ wrote: post #9

This is the most important lesson my mother ever taught me. I (like her) have that same type of intelligence, the type that makes IQ tests and school exams far easier than they should be, and yet often isn't really that useful in life. I still find myself placing far too much importance in it when judging people, can only imagine how big headed I would be about it if she hadn't constantly reminded me how little IQ re…

I don't understand these meme of degrading IQ as having little real world value. That mentality seems to fly in the face of just about every observation one can make. It seems obvious that in general, smarter people tend to get ahead. Of course there are many counter examples, but overall the trend seems obvious. Why is it everyone must apologize, make excuses for, or somehow downplay their own intelligence? Maybe it…

Fry's point in particular is not that IQ is bad or useless; it clearly indicates some kind of talent. It's that treasuring IQ to the point that you join a society for people with high IQ, to Fry, also indicates a vapid intellectual narcissism wholly lacking in other kinds of "intelligence". At the very least, he feels that that's what it would have meant for him.

Avoid confusing warnings against a certain kind of vanity with anti-intellectualism, which regrettably is popular enough already.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#29

Post by billconan » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 5:14 AM UTC

When I was in high school, I topped my class. Some of my classmates started to call me about questions in their quizzes. I could remember the exact descriptions of the quiz questions back in few months. So when they asked me about certain question, I didn't need my exam papers. They told me the number of a question, I could give both the question and the answer. I didn't remember the question on purpose, I simply did because I took the quizzes. I lived in an Asian country, where daily quizzes were more than 1 hour long,

My classmates admired my ability of remembering things. I enjoyed that feeling quite a bit. Yet, I couldn't take any intelligence test.I was afraid that the result of my test might look bad.

I often hear about Gene scientist saying that they have discovered certain gene that defines certain "ability" of people, for example, "good-looking gene", "criminal gene". It seems that everything is deterministic (to some extend) by genes.

It sounds like at certain time in the future, they can discover a "loser gene" such that a child can be tagged in his young age.

Gene technology is making Determinism more true than ever before. And that is a very horrible fact. If I knew that I would be a loser, I would have given up my life.

I was afraid of IQ tests, I still am. I want to try different things in my life, no matter if I am inherently good, or bad at it. IQ tests are evil. They are the ruthless lifetime sentence against endeavor.

Re: Issac Asimov: What Is Intelligence, Anyway?

#30

Post by RockyMcNuts » Mon, Aug 15, 2011, 5:28 AM UTC

It's hard to definitively describe or measure intelligence.

But it seems beyond dispute that for any given task requiring it, different people will perform measurably better or worse.

And some people will become highly proficient at a wide variety of such tasks quicker than others.