You Are Jeff Bezos • Hacker News Board

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#41

Post by eps » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

iliekcomputers wrote: post #2

I decided to "pay off personal taxes" >Here's where we get into the dicey business of what "personal worth" is, and how that translates to taxable income. >Answer: It usually doesn't, because rich people are master frauds and charlatans who exploit loopholes in tax code to avoid paying their fair share. >Jeff Bezos is worth $156 billion? You're using the top tax bracket of 37% and paying out $57.72 billion of that. Y…

> He's supposed to pay tax on income not on wealth.

Depends on the country.

In the US, it's just on income.

In Switzerland, for example, it's also on wealth. Well under a single percent, but still.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#42

Post by leesec » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #22

leesec wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what kind of incentive it would create if we just started giving homeless people houses

Housing, not houses. And they don't own the property. In most programs like this, the person gets a single room or (if they have a family) a small apartment. It's considered temporary - only until they can get back on their feet financially. It's still only one step above complete destitution. Most people would prefer better and would still work hard. It's a lot easier for a person to get a job, or beat any personal…

We spend about a trillion dollars on welfare a year but i'm sure this next 20 billion would finally crack it!

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#43

Post by SllX » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

edge17 wrote: post #28

SllX wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. Much of his personal wealth is equity in his companies, primarily Amazon. That’s tied up in Amazon’s business, not a piggy bank, and leaving that money in Amazon does leave it subject to rises and falls in the market valuation of Amazon. Realizing those gains from his initial investment and any subsequent personal investments in Amazon, or cashing out means selling on the market; and the act of selli…

Not really without moving the price of the stock. You can try it yourself by trading some illiquid securities. It goes with anything you trade - if you trade enough you move the price. It's also not working capital, it's just a personal asset - albeit unrealized gains. Taxing unrealized gains is like you paying taxes for an increase in value in the house you purchased. Until you sell the house, you may not have the m…

We are mostly not disagreeing. On paper does not necessarily reflect what would happen in reality if he tried to sell that much Amazon stock quickly.

You did raise a good point on equity vs working capital though, and I’m still inside the edit window so I’m going to adjust that now. Thanks!

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#44

Post by missedthecue » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #13

>"End homelessness in the United States (-$20 billion)" Wow! Someone tell congress. $20 billion is nothing to those folks. The solution was here all along! Were it so easy...

the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has a budget of almost $70 billion per year. Someone should fill them in that the internet figured out how to solve homelessness for a one-time payment only fraction of what they spend year-in year-out.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#45

Post by iamricks » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #8

iliekcomputers wrote: post #2

I decided to "pay off personal taxes" >Here's where we get into the dicey business of what "personal worth" is, and how that translates to taxable income. >Answer: It usually doesn't, because rich people are master frauds and charlatans who exploit loopholes in tax code to avoid paying their fair share. >Jeff Bezos is worth $156 billion? You're using the top tax bracket of 37% and paying out $57.72 billion of that. Y…

This is just another piece written by someone who does not understand how income tax works and is unable to appreciate that this problem is actually complicated. If Jeff Bezos net worth increases by 1 billion over a year, he hasn't realized any of the actual gains and that profit it purely on paper. If he chose to live on 1M$/year then he only has to pay 370k$ in taxes that's how it works for you and me and that's ho…

Doesn't the 300M he spent on the yacht get distributed into the economy?

I don't understand why people want higher taxes on high income, i don't want the government to distribute that money. I rather it get distributed to the company and its employees building that yacht than adding it to the national budget.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#46

Post by zachthewf » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #32

BitwiseFool wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Being a billionaire is inherently immoral." No it isn't, and that's no a self-evident assertion. Jeff Bezos is a billionaire because the company he created and led for the past 20 years is an insanely productive business. People want to own shares in his company and that is why his holdings are worth so much. >"without underpaying or overcharging others" This is an impossible standard to meet. In a system as massiv…

I would argue that's the baseline disagreement right there. "No it isn't, and that's not a self-evident assertion" - I would say those on the further left think it is. The premise being "Is there an amount of wealth one person or family can have, that is so exorbitant in comparison to the average citizen that it is unjustifiable on its face?" - and the easily marketable answer is "billionaire". Do you think there is…

The immoral part is "while millions around him suffer", not "the amount of wealth one person can have," and billionaires don't actually have all that much to do with that.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#47

Post by hncurious » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #8

iliekcomputers wrote: post #2

I decided to "pay off personal taxes" >Here's where we get into the dicey business of what "personal worth" is, and how that translates to taxable income. >Answer: It usually doesn't, because rich people are master frauds and charlatans who exploit loopholes in tax code to avoid paying their fair share. >Jeff Bezos is worth $156 billion? You're using the top tax bracket of 37% and paying out $57.72 billion of that. Y…

This is just another piece written by someone who does not understand how income tax works and is unable to appreciate that this problem is actually complicated. If Jeff Bezos net worth increases by 1 billion over a year, he hasn't realized any of the actual gains and that profit it purely on paper. If he chose to live on 1M$/year then he only has to pay 370k$ in taxes that's how it works for you and me and that's ho…

People also seem to have forgotten that stock can, and often does, go down.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#48

Post by pentae » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

leesec wrote: post #30

Such an unrealistic game, doesn't have the option anywhere to create jobs for 1.3 million employees while also providing an immense service to the world. I hope people really don't believe anything like the contents of this game, but I know some do.

It's as if these people haven't heard of the government and how much money they have to throw around to fix their wish list of problems. Why is it a private individuals responsibility?

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#49

Post by ldbooth » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

belval wrote: post #8

iliekcomputers wrote: post #2

I decided to "pay off personal taxes" >Here's where we get into the dicey business of what "personal worth" is, and how that translates to taxable income. >Answer: It usually doesn't, because rich people are master frauds and charlatans who exploit loopholes in tax code to avoid paying their fair share. >Jeff Bezos is worth $156 billion? You're using the top tax bracket of 37% and paying out $57.72 billion of that. Y…

This is just another piece written by someone who does not understand how income tax works and is unable to appreciate that this problem is actually complicated. If Jeff Bezos net worth increases by 1 billion over a year, he hasn't realized any of the actual gains and that profit it purely on paper. If he chose to live on 1M$/year then he only has to pay 370k$ in taxes that's how it works for you and me and that's ho…

Buffet has argued for a Consumption tax, he is closest to the mark.

Re: You Are Jeff Bezos

#50

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #17

Swizec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's supposed to pay tax on income not on wealth. Yes. That’s the trap most of these arguments for taxing the rich fall into under the current system. Having money and making money are taxed differently. If you own a house and all of your neighbors sell theirs at a 30% markup, should you pay taxes on making $300,000 (for a 1mil house) this year? Maybe … seems kinda unfair though. You didn’t participate in those tra…

> If you own a house and all of your neighbors sell theirs at a 30% markup, should you pay taxes on making $300,000 (for a 1mil house) this year? In most places (not California) your property will likely be assessed higher and your taxes will be commensurately higher next year. Your house's increased value isn't treated like realized income, but its effect on your taxes isn't 0 either.

> In most places (not California) your property will likely be assessed higher

In California it will be assessed higher, there is just a cap in the rate of increase (lots of places have copied this though none in the US have as low a cap as California’s “lower of 2% or rate of general inflation”, and few combine their cap on increases with as low a cap on nominal property tax rates [1%] as California.)