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No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

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Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#11

Post by noodle »

lunchbox wrote: post #10
noodle wrote: post #3

no, silly, piracy is not theft. piracy is piracy, its not a theft or not theft issue, its a different animal. the rebuttal makes the assumption that pirates will actually pay for the item if they can't get it for free. 90% (i made this number up) of pirates would not pay for the item that they're pirating. hypothetically, if i were unable to pirate photoshop, i'd use gimp instead. i wouldn't go buy photoshop. so, pir…

OK, accepting your made-up figure of 90%, what about the other 10% who would pay for the item they're pirating?

i'm not sitting here defending anything. the other 10% doesn't factor into any valuation judgment or right/wrong analysis, since i didn't make one. i'm just pointing out facts and pointing out that the concept of digital piracy does not directly equate to the legal definition of theft. maybe they're in the same order or family, but they're not the same genus or species.

and i'm also, apparently, making up statistics.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#12

Post by lunchbox »

carlio wrote: post #5

People need to stop thinking of piracy as theft or not theft. It's a digitally reproducible item which makes traditional concepts of property obsolete and it's about time the law and the record industry started coming up with terms which match this status. Piracy does not take money away from sellers. It reduces how much they get. This is not the same thing. The best example I heard was this: say you're a baker and y…

"The best example I heard was this: say you're a baker and you sell bread. One day it starts raining bread, and people pick up their bread from the street rather than pay for yours. It sucks for you that you aren't getting money from your bread, but how can you blame people for what they're doing?"

Inaccurate analogy. The baker played no part in making it rain bread. Software developers and other producers of content invest their time, money, and life into creating the product that gets disseminated. If they see that the product of their labor will get pirated, they will be less inclined to innovate and produce more in the future.

"Price is dictated by supply and demand, and there's now a supply which is infinite and therefore, by traditional economics, surely it should be free?"

No. You are committing the fallacy of confusing descriptive economics with normative economics. Saying what will be is not the same as saying what should be. As an example: if I hack into your server, steal your startup's source code, and release it on BitTorrent, your startup's product will become free. That doesn't mean it should be free.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#14

Post by lunchbox »

noodle wrote: post #11
lunchbox wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, accepting your made-up figure of 90%, what about the other 10% who would pay for the item they're pirating?

i'm not sitting here defending anything. the other 10% doesn't factor into any valuation judgment or right/wrong analysis, since i didn't make one. i'm just pointing out facts and pointing out that the concept of digital piracy does not directly equate to the legal definition of theft. maybe they're in the same order or family, but they're not the same genus or species. and i'm also, apparently, making up statistics.

I'm challenging your assertion that "piracy does not steal income".

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#15

Post by mrtron »

Piracy is a strange beast, but it is definitely NOT theft.

If I download a song - it does not directly negatively impact the artist. They aren't out anything.

The indirect impact on the artist is another matter. They are potentially out of a sale that could have otherwise happened without the piracy. However, they are also potentially gaining a sale from a user who would have not normally purchased their music, but downloaded and decided to buy. Just like listening to a song on the radio isn't theft - yet if you are only listening to the radio and not buying music are you stealing?

It most certainly should not carry harsher penalties than physical theft. Downloading a song should not result in a 1000$ penalty while a physical theft of a CD results in a lesser penalty.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#16

Post by rw »

yters wrote: post #2

Another lame argument I hear is that all IP is essentially some number, and since you can't copyright a number, there is no such thing as IP.

Representation is arbitrary. IP laws identify "intellectual property" by representation. IP laws are not adapting, and they aren't able to adapt. The situation is hopeless and unenforceable: encrypt a DVD-rip or music file and then ask someone to identify it as such. It's impossible. We have to move beyond believing in copyright and IP laws because they are not enforceable.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#17

Post by dfranke »

In constructing his analogy the author seems to take it as given that sneaking into a movie theater is theft. I don't consider that theft. I consider it piracy plus trespassing.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#18

Post by brlewis »

I think we all know piracy is not theft. It's robbery and murder at sea. Infringement is not theft either as best I can tell. But ask a lawyer if the question pertains to your specific situation.

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#19

Post by blogimus »

"Piracy" is just as inappropriate and ridiculous as "theft" as a term to describe illegal copying or copyright infringement. Call it what it is, "illegal copying." It fits its own class, not theft of hard goods on land or piracy on the high seas.

"Arggg, what seas you be sailing, matey?"

How did the word "piracy" ever get attributed to this? Just to make it more sensational, more evil?

Re: No, Silly, Piracy is Theft

#20

Post by byrneseyeview »

edw519 wrote: post #8
carlio wrote: post #5

People need to stop thinking of piracy as theft or not theft. It's a digitally reproducible item which makes traditional concepts of property obsolete and it's about time the law and the record industry started coming up with terms which match this status. Piracy does not take money away from sellers. It reduces how much they get. This is not the same thing. The best example I heard was this: say you're a baker and y…

But it's not a question of ethics EXACTLY what someone with an ethical dilemma says. Situational logic if there ever was any.

I'm actually more suspicious of people who turn what is basically an engineering question ("How do we design a system that maximizes total utility?") into a moral question.
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