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Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

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Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#131

Post by dang »

gok wrote: post #108

A liar on HN, chiefofgxbxl, died earlier today when he was run over. It was not the driver's fault. It was reported by police that chiefofgxbxl deserved this fate for being a pedestrian in the way of an SUV, and for claiming to use "Natural Language Processing" when all he was really doing was using Javascript to scan text for a hardcoded substring list. Your tool believes this article has no problems.

I realize this may have been a joke taken too far, but your comment breaks several of the HN guidelines and the Show HN guidelines egregiously. Please make your substantive points without personal attacks in the future!

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#132

Post by gonzo41 »

emj wrote: post #103
wiredfool wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Ireland, used to live in the US, and had to take the Irish driver training and test as an adult, experienced driver. (Who had been driving approx as long as my instructor had been alive). The test was difficult, picky, and the things that they were looking for were not necessarily correlated with safe, strictly legal driving. (e.g., target speed in a 50KPH zone (urban area) was 53, not 49, and to not approa…

I know nothing about the infrastructure in Ireland, but the drivers in the US kill at least twice as many people. Letting people drive cars at 50 km/h in an urban area is crazy, everyone you hit at those speeds die.

What speed in miles would you think is Apr. Because 50km/h give you pretty good relation time. The trick is not to get in a crash from the start

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#133

Post by SkeuomorphicBee »

dymk wrote: post #109
eli wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming the driver starts the root cause analysis in a different direction than blaming the pedestrian.

Neither solve the root problem - poor road design

Poor road design is mainly a political problem. We know how to make good roads, on the technical side it is a "solved problem", but we lack the political will to do it. So setting the proper framing did solve the root problem

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#134

Post by throwaway0a5e »

lamontcg wrote: post #58
JackFr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t be obtuse. A person collapses into the street and is struck by oncoming traffic - no one is to blame. It is an accident.

If I see a cyclist one of the things I do is slow down and give them space specifically because bicyclists do occasionally fall. A good chunk of my awareness is also assigned to evaluating how they're riding in order to anticipate any kind of problem. The fact that most motorists don't believe there's any kind of responsibility for everyone to behave similarly is a problem.

Changing your behavior gives the cyclists and the road users around you (other cars, pedestrians looking for a spot to cross, etc, etc) the impression that you're a skittish or novice driver and are uncomfortable with the situation. This puts them on alert that you might do something unexpected (you are presumably a novice after all). This takes attention away from all the other things that demand their attention and reduces overall situational awareness.

The best favor you can do all other traffic is to be as predictable and unremarkable in your actions as possible so that they may reliably plan their actions around yours.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#135

Post by beaconstudios »

codezero wrote: post #105
beaconstudios wrote: post #33

this seems to me like it's designed to shift the blame from unilaterally on the VRU (bad), to unilaterally on the driver (also bad). You pay lip service to systemic problems, but this is not a systemic approach to reducing crashes; it just implies that the driver is at fault, which is not always the case in these things. As another comment noted, reporters would do well to highlight the context around the crash if th…

If a Cessna crashes into a car, is it safe to blame the Cessna and not the car, rather than treat it as a special case? I'm sure a car could swerve onto a runway mid-landing, but it would be the exception to the rule, right? When operating a car you should be expected to be in a heightened state of awareness and responsibility because of your capacity to cause damage, compared to a pedestrian. The bias in the current…

I think that's a false choice; rather than choosing between anti-VRU bias (as present) and anti-driver bias (as proposed), why not choose to report the specific facts of the incident at hand? Blaming one party all the time is stupid, because one party is not always at fault.

Edit:

Your cessna example makes no sense, as cars and planes do not generally share space. Should bikes and cars share space? No, but that's part of the systemic aspect of the problem.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#136

Post by burnished »

butwhywhyoh wrote: post #124
yodelshady wrote: post #117

That's actually pretty amazing work. Being super preachy, as a cliched straight white etc etc... after riding a bike I sort of get complaints about -isms, emotionally, in a way I wouldn't without. Everyone has already concluded that you deserved it . Whatever happened. It does not matter if you were wearing hi-vis, or had a light, or were in a bike lane, or the nearest bike lane is 5 miles away and on the pavement fo…

I'd love to hear even one anecdote of 'kid believes bikers are unfairly blamed for accidents' -> 'kid decides never to exercise again in any form'

Its more the realization that you aren't safe, and that your safety is not only not a priority but somehow actively repugnant, all due to you being on a bike.

If you are a kid driving isn't an option. If you don't feel safe on the roads as a pedestrian or bicyclist then your options are rather limited. This was my own experience, and if I had been less reckless I would have gotten less exercise. As it was, telling some one about a scary experience like a car almost hitting me was usually almost always met with a story about how terrible cyclists are. Its weird.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#137

Post by lamontcg »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #134
lamontcg wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I see a cyclist one of the things I do is slow down and give them space specifically because bicyclists do occasionally fall. A good chunk of my awareness is also assigned to evaluating how they're riding in order to anticipate any kind of problem. The fact that most motorists don't believe there's any kind of responsibility for everyone to behave similarly is a problem.

Changing your behavior gives the cyclists and the road users around you (other cars, pedestrians looking for a spot to cross, etc, etc) the impression that you're a skittish or novice driver and are uncomfortable with the situation. This puts them on alert that you might do something unexpected (you are presumably a novice after all). This takes attention away from all the other things that demand their attention and…

> you are presumably a novice after all

I'm 49 and I've been driving since I was 16.

You can absolutely react to hazards without appearing skittish, which also alerts other traffic to the hazard if they're paying close attention.

Trying to drive like a robot all the time is something that actual novice drivers think makes them better drivers.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#138

Post by eric_the_read »

I tried it out on https://www.denverpost.com/2021/10/07/medina-alert-hit-run-c..., which I would think in general a group like Vision Zero would approve of, and it got a C (-1 points), because of the phrase, "[The] vehicle will have heavy damage". This seems pedantic, at best, since the whole point of that phrase is to help the public identify the vehicle (and presumably the driver) which was involved in the accident.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#139

Post by dymk »

SkeuomorphicBee wrote: post #133
dymk wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither solve the root problem - poor road design

Poor road design is mainly a political problem. We know how to make good roads, on the technical side it is a "solved problem", but we lack the political will to do it. So setting the proper framing did solve the root problem

Then target leadership. They're the ones responsible for building better roads (which is the whole advertised purpose of this project!).

Writing an NLP bot that rewords articles to blame the driver 100% of the time is nothing but an exercise in getting a nice revenge dopamine rush. But drivers aren't the ones building roads.

Re: Show HN: Identify car crash editorial anti-patterns using NLP

#140

Post by chiefofgxbxl »

eric_the_read wrote: post #138

I tried it out on https://www.denverpost.com/2021/10/07/medina-alert-hit-run-c... , which I would think in general a group like Vision Zero would approve of, and it got a C (-1 points), because of the phrase, "[The] vehicle will have heavy damage". This seems pedantic, at best, since the whole point of that phrase is to help the public identify the vehicle (and presumably the driver) which was involved in the acciden…

Thanks for alerting me to this - that sentence is itself fine, and the tool is incorrectly marking it as problematic. I'll debug that!
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