Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#191

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

dyndos wrote: post #184

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking through the GrapheneOS source, the servers may not be Google servers but the system is still designed to phone home. As such, have they solved the problem or is this just another case of "Dont' trust them, trust us instead." Has anyone succeeded in running multiboot on "smartphone" hardware, i.e., where the user can boot into a choice of kernel/userland. One choice might be Android, another might be GrapheneO…

Did you actually find any examples of GrapheneOS phoning home? GrapheneOS doesn't rely on any third-parties I'm aware of. The only service provided is over-the-air security updates. It doesn't even come with an app store (although you can install F-Droid). For that reason, GrapheneOS alone fits all three categories you mentioned: It is Android, it is GrapheneOS, and it is fully controllable / doesn't ship bloatware.

"The only service provided is over-the-air security updates."

Connectivity check / time servers

https://grapheneos.org/articles/grapheneos-servers#grapheneo...

Amongst others.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#192

Post by commoner » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

_V_ wrote: post #165

salusinarduis wrote: post #62

I use GraphineOS and LineageOS without Google Play Services. They are great and are suitable replacements for Apple and Google. - Osmand(FOSS) for maps (supports being fully offline!) - Signal and Discord for messaging (Discord is sandboxed) - Newpipe(FOSS) for Youtube - F-droid(FOSS) for my FOSS appstore - APKmirror for the few non-free apps I need - Libretorrent(FOSS) and VLC(FOSS) for watching movies - Firefox(FOS…

What do you use as Dialer/SMS/Contact app? I tried to switch myself from iPhone and almost everything was OK but these were the worst to get right... I ended up using suite from Tibor Kaputa (Simple Dialer etc) but I ran into some rather annoying issues. Also, do you use phone recoding? This was actually my breaking point, because i have an iPhone w/ jailbreak that enables me to record phone conversations (for my use…

The only functional FOSS call recording app for Android that I'm aware of is the Call Recorder app on F-Droid:

- Call Recorder: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.axet.callrecorder...

To use this app, you'll need to root your phone using Magisk[1] and the install the Magisk module for Axet's Call Recorder.[2] Then, upgrade the Call Recorder app to the latest version in F-Droid. Note: do not enable "System Mixer Incall Recording" in Call Recorder, since it is not needed and may cause issues with recording.

[1] https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk

[2] https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/callrecorder-axet

The default dialer and contact apps are both FOSS and functional, so I never felt the need to replace them. Signal can take over as the default SMS/MMS app, and there are alternatives with more features such as QKSMS:

- QKSMS: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.moez.QKSMS/

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#193

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

commoner wrote: post #188

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned Signal and Discord for "messaging". Can you or someone else confirm that video calls work with GrapheneOS or LineageOS. I am getting ready to try these but I am still not sure video calling works. When reading about them I cannot find much discussion of this particular application.

I can confirm that video calls work in Signal on Android flavors that don't use Google Play Services, including both GrapheneOS and LineageOS.

Thank you. Much appreciated. :)

(Perhaps WhatsApp might work as well, since, IME, it can be sideloaded and will work without a functional Google Play Services.)

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#194

Post by louloulou » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

daneel_w wrote: post #125

salusinarduis wrote: post #75

I use GraphineOS and LineageOS without Google Play Services. They are great and are suitable replacements for Apple and Google. - Osmand(FOSS) for maps (supports being fully offline!) - Signal and Discord for messaging (Discord is sandboxed) - Newpipe(FOSS) for Youtube - F-droid(FOSS) for my FOSS appstore - APKmirror for the few non-free apps I need - Libretorrent(FOSS) and VLC(FOSS) for watching movies - Firefox(FOS…

> ...and have a better experience in every category than iOS, hardware and software. Really? I tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel 4A, and without exaggerating or trying to come off sensationalist the experience was really tepid compared to iOS, and even "normal" Android. Stuttering and jerky UI (which often also wanted to take a brief nap), very poor GPU hardware acceleration support, notably worse battery life, loads of th…

I'm running GrapheneOS on a 4a right now and it's smooth like butter - maybe you needed to wait for a few updates. The camera has improved a lot as well but is still not close to the stock google camera.

It seems like what you're looking for is CalixOS + microG.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#195

Post by robocat » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:28 PM UTC

gpvos wrote: post #180

Kubuxu wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most banks in EU require phone app based confirmations for transfers and other operations (according to PDS2 directive). Visa and Mastercard also introduced 3DSecrue system which piggybacks on the same system of confirmations. Vendors are incentivised to adopt it by lower rates. In essence when paying with card or making a wire transfer (or using some instant transfer method, for example Blik in Poland), you get noti…

It depends per bank; mine discontinued the paper OTP pad as well as the SMS codes, and gave me a separate 2FA device when I didn't want to use their app. I don't think banks can force you to have a smartphone yet.

> separate 2FA device

FYI in New Zealand a few banks can provide a device (e.g. RSA SecurID) for proper non-bank 2 factor auth with consumer accounts. However some major banks only use phones for 2FA (app or SMS).

The norms seem to vary considerably depending on country.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#196

Post by salusinarduis » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #193

commoner wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm that video calls work in Signal on Android flavors that don't use Google Play Services, including both GrapheneOS and LineageOS.

Thank you. Much appreciated. :) (Perhaps WhatsApp might work as well, since, IME, it can be sideloaded and will work without a functional Google Play Services.)

Signal is specifically designed to work without Google Play Services, so expect a 1:1 experience when using it with these privacy conscious distros.

I'm confident Whatsapp will work, but I have not tried. Push notifications will not work without Google Play Services.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#197

Post by commoner » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

hellisothers wrote: post #46

And yet we have articles that say iOS is similar if not worse and people pile in to “both sides” it (1). Why is it I feel it’s clear that fundamentally iOS favors privacy (for profit) and Android eschews it (for profit) yet it’s somehow debatable still? (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28819318

One area that iOS can improve on is the linking of app downloads to Apple IDs. I don't want every app I've ever downloaded on iOS to be permanently recorded in my Apple ID. With Android, I can use Aurora Store or sideload apps that were originally published on the Play Store without needing a Google account at all. Apple should implement a way to anonymously download free apps, whether from the App Store or from elsewhere.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#198

Post by commoner » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

durnygbur wrote: post #22

Tepix wrote: post #21

I'm wondering if Nokia phones with Android One are not snitching on their users like the others are.

Nokia licensed their mobile brand and now it's some Chinese producer slapping the logo on the devices. Probably on pair with Xiaomi and Huawei.

I don't think this is accurate. Microsoft acquired Nokia in 2014, but then spun off the brand to HMD Global (a new Finnish company) in 2017. HMD and Foxconn have a partnership in which both companies co-design the Nokia phones that are then manufactured by Foxconn in Taiwan.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10879/hmd-closes-nokia-brand-...

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#199

Post by dont__panic » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

salusinarduis wrote: post #90

dont__panic wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider Fennec instead of Firefox -- I just switched yesterday, and I think the only difference is that Fennec is usually a couple of versions behind because it removes some Mozilla crapware.

Does it support extensions? I can't go anywhere without uBlock Origin :D

There's a workaround to support pretty much any FF extension at this point -- but you have to create a "collection" with your firefox account and then point your Android FF install at that collection. Not too hard, but a little bit of a PITA. If you're like me and maintain the same couple dozen extensions on every FF install, though, it actually works pretty well.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#200

Post by busterarm » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

daneel_w wrote: post #125

salusinarduis wrote: post #75

I use GraphineOS and LineageOS without Google Play Services. They are great and are suitable replacements for Apple and Google. - Osmand(FOSS) for maps (supports being fully offline!) - Signal and Discord for messaging (Discord is sandboxed) - Newpipe(FOSS) for Youtube - F-droid(FOSS) for my FOSS appstore - APKmirror for the few non-free apps I need - Libretorrent(FOSS) and VLC(FOSS) for watching movies - Firefox(FOS…

> ...and have a better experience in every category than iOS, hardware and software. Really? I tried GrapheneOS on a Pixel 4A, and without exaggerating or trying to come off sensationalist the experience was really tepid compared to iOS, and even "normal" Android. Stuttering and jerky UI (which often also wanted to take a brief nap), very poor GPU hardware acceleration support, notably worse battery life, loads of th…

I run GrapheneOS on a 4A with TMobile and the frequent reports of people trying to call me telling me my line is out of service and days where calls won't initiate from my phone at all makes me want to run back to my iPhone.

The tethering seems to be pretty flakey as well with me often having to reboot the phone.