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Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

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Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#11

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rsj_hn wrote: post #10
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Panhandle Idahoans clogging Eastern Washington hospitals because they tended against vaccination still makes it our problem. As long as people can move freely across state borders, a national policy would be more effective than a state by state one.

A national vaccine mandate requires enabling legislation, not executive orders. Yes, congressional law trumps state law but executive orders do not. This view that Biden can issue an executive order and break lease agreements or union contracts, or local state regulations all across the country is really dangerous. We do not have a king, but it seems a lot of people really want the president to legislate via decree a…

Blame Article Two of the Constitution for giving presidents such power. Also most rules on work place safety have been done via executive agency, not via congressional legislation.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#12

Post by rsj_hn »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11
rsj_hn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A national vaccine mandate requires enabling legislation, not executive orders. Yes, congressional law trumps state law but executive orders do not. This view that Biden can issue an executive order and break lease agreements or union contracts, or local state regulations all across the country is really dangerous. We do not have a king, but it seems a lot of people really want the president to legislate via decree a…

Blame Article Two of the Constitution for giving presidents such power. Also most rules on work place safety have been done via executive agency, not via congressional legislation.

Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples, you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions. Trying to tie vaccine mandates to workplace safety is a howler (https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/572149-bidens-wildly-u...) but we will need to wait for the courts to toss this.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#13

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rsj_hn wrote: post #12
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Article Two of the Constitution for giving presidents such power. Also most rules on work place safety have been done via executive agency, not via congressional legislation.

Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples, you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions. Trying to tie vaccine mandates to workplace safety is a howler ( https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/572149-bidens-wildly-u... ) but we will need to wait for the courts to toss this.

> Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples

So you claim without rationale or examples.

> you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions.

The eviction ban had nothing to do with workplace safety. It doesn't come under the executive's power to manage federal contracts and workplace safety via OSHA. In fact, it is much more grounded as an executive order than most of the other executive orders dealt out in the past 8 years.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#14

Post by 908B64B197 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8
tharne wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting to think pushing more decisions to the state level is the only way to cool things off in the U.S. Rather than having these life or death battles for control of the federal government, letting people eventually self-sort into states that align with their values may be a more workable path forward. It's not perfect, but it's better than what's going on now and what the current situation could eventually es…

I don't know. Panhandle Idahoans clogging Eastern Washington hospitals because they tended against vaccination still makes it our problem. As long as people can move freely across state borders, a national policy would be more effective than a state by state one.

Just send them back. Or bill them an extra out-of-state premium.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#15

Post by over_bridge »

TimedToasts wrote: post #9
tharne wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting to think pushing more decisions to the state level is the only way to cool things off in the U.S. Rather than having these life or death battles for control of the federal government, letting people eventually self-sort into states that align with their values may be a more workable path forward. It's not perfect, but it's better than what's going on now and what the current situation could eventually es…

That's really how the US is intended to work.

Does it work though? It's crazy to see a president elected and still be utterly powerless to implement their agenda since they're blocked at senate and state level

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#16

Post by davidf18 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #12
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Article Two of the Constitution for giving presidents such power. Also most rules on work place safety have been done via executive agency, not via congressional legislation.

Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples, you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions. Trying to tie vaccine mandates to workplace safety is a howler ( https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/572149-bidens-wildly-u... ) but we will need to wait for the courts to toss this.

Author of that cited article is with the very conservative Heartland Institute.

Protecting vaccinated patients from being infected through vaccine breakthrough by unvaccinated patients is clearly a health and safety rule which is under OSHA.

Unvaccinated employees because they are much more likely to become infected, and infectious for longer periods of time than vaccinated employees, present a biohazard risk to vaccinated employees.

The Heartland author article did not even mention health and safety and biohazards.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#17

Post by rsj_hn »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #13
rsj_hn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples, you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions. Trying to tie vaccine mandates to workplace safety is a howler ( https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/572149-bidens-wildly-u... ) but we will need to wait for the courts to toss this.

> Both of these statements are false, but since you provided no rationale or examples So you claim without rationale or examples. > you'll have to wait until this executive order is thrown out like the one banning evictions. The eviction ban had nothing to do with workplace safety. It doesn't come under the executive's power to manage federal contracts and workplace safety via OSHA. In fact, it is much more grounded…

The executive order is for all employers that employ more than 100 workers, not federal contracts. But even federal contracts can't be amended by executive decree once they are signed.

But if you are so certain that the EO is constutional all you will need to do is wait.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#18

Post by blip54321 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #5
blip54321 wrote: post #4

Regulating private businesses like this feels anti-Texas. Governing by executive fiat also feels anti-Texas. I'm not sure what's going on in Texas, but I miss the small government, freedom-loving Texas.

Assuming Texas was a small government, freedom loving state, one would think they would be one of the first to roll out legal marijuana. Or allow purchasing liquor at grocery stores. Or not require students to recite the pledge of allegiance. Or the Texas pledge of allegiance.

I have to agree with most of those, with two exceptions:

- Marijuana isn't really on the same axis. It only becomes the same axis once you allow _all_ drugs -- cocaine, opium, etc. Once you ban one drug, government has control over which drugs are legal or illegal.

- You don't need to align 100% to be an outlier in a given direction. Zoning, gun ownership, freedom-of-speech, and a hundred other issues collectively make up this particular ideological axis. No one will align 100%.

The point, though, is that small-government freedom-loving is a core part of the Texas identity. It's what Texas is about. It's strange to see it this far distorted.

Mandating masks or vaccines by state control? That's not Texas culture.

Preventing businesses from making such mandates for their employees? That's also not Texas culture.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#19

Post by seanmcdirmid »

908B64B197 wrote: post #14
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Panhandle Idahoans clogging Eastern Washington hospitals because they tended against vaccination still makes it our problem. As long as people can move freely across state borders, a national policy would be more effective than a state by state one.

Just send them back. Or bill them an extra out-of-state premium.

Hospitals are not run or funded by the state, so that wouldn't make sense. Northern Idaho and Western Montana have long relied on hospitals in more urban Spokane. But times like these show a huge disconnect between public health policy (to keep space in ICUs open), and states that rely on ICU capacity in other states and so aren't worried about conserving it.

Re: Texas governor bans all vaccine mandates, including from private businesses

#20

Post by dham »

tharne wrote: post #6
siruncledrew wrote: post #3

This whole clusterfuck of states vs. the federal government on vaccination requirements is a big clog in the pipes and a bunch of unnecessary headache. Realistically, at what point is the US at "terminal velocity" on vaccination?

I'm starting to think pushing more decisions to the state level is the only way to cool things off in the U.S. Rather than having these life or death battles for control of the federal government, letting people eventually self-sort into states that align with their values may be a more workable path forward. It's not perfect, but it's better than what's going on now and what the current situation could eventually es…

Lol. I mean that was the whole point of the states. Then the federal government gained too much power. Why the federal government has policies that affect Florida the same as North Dakota is asinine
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