Earlier quoted context omitted.
France isn't reducing the capacity as a targetted policy but out of necessity. They have 58 nuclear power plants, most of them quite old (before 80ies). To maintain the current level, they would have to be replaced not too far in the future, but currently only 1 or 2 new reactors are under construction and both late and way over budget. So there currently is no route in maintaining the current capacity. Consequently…
Consciously deciding to not replace capacity when the need for replacement is known decades in advance is a targeted policy.
Nuclear Power in France
131–140 of 309 posts
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
France isn't reducing the capacity as a targetted policy but out of necessity. They have 58 nuclear power plants, most of them quite old (before 80ies). To maintain the current level, they would have to be replaced not too far in the future, but currently only 1 or 2 new reactors are under construction and both late and way over budget. So there currently is no route in maintaining the current capacity. Consequently…
> currently only 1 or 2 new reactors are under construction and both late and way over budget. So in a few decades France has forgotten how to build reactors on time and in an affordable way?
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government policy for a reduction to 50% is not based on issues with nuclear power itself. As far as I have seen, there are mainly 2 reasons mentioned in the public debate: i) a concern about the disposal of nuclear wastes and the long-term cost of their storage, and ii) the desire to follow other countries' policies, with a focus on wind, water and sunlight, rather than leading the way with the cheapest and most…
Where have you seen nuclear is the cheapest solution for electrity production? Nuclear has some benefits, but price does seem to be one of them (and actually one of the reasons for preferring renewable)
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nuclear power has inherit risks that are not present in other forms of modern energy generation. You can claim that todays designs are 99.9999999% safe, but there is no such thing as 100% You're breathing coal and gas byproducts every single day, byproducts which are taking years of life expectancy, and it doesn't seem to bother anyone, but oh god "Chernobyl bad, let's close perfectly safe and working nuclear react…
> Germany is firing up coal plants because they're decomissining their nuclear reactors in favour of intermittent energy sources No they aren't, they are decomissioning coal plants, too, and at a much faster rate than nuclear. From 2013 to 2020 nuclear as share of Germany's energy mix went from 17% to 13%. https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy_pie/chart.htm?l=en& ... During the same time, coal went from 45% to 23%…
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#135"Government policy is to reduce this to 50% by 2035." I'm no expert on Nuclear power but it seems to me were going in the wrong direction. At a time when we're investing so much money in other fuels, we could be investing that in better nuclear power, like Small Modular Reactors [1], Sodium Cooled Fission, Small Pellet reactors, etc. [2] [1] https://www.energy.gov/ne/advanced-small-modular-reactors-sm... [2] https://…
The government policy for a reduction to 50% is not based on issues with nuclear power itself. As far as I have seen, there are mainly 2 reasons mentioned in the public debate: i) a concern about the disposal of nuclear wastes and the long-term cost of their storage, and ii) the desire to follow other countries' policies, with a focus on wind, water and sunlight, rather than leading the way with the cheapest and most…
I don't understand this concern. If you already have several decades worth of nuclear waste to manage/dispose, is it really more expensive to manage/dispose another several decades? For example, if you're disposing in a deep geologic repository, is it really much more expensive to put a little bit of waste in a big hole versus a little more waste?
> Overall, I believe this is not a bad idea because i) renewable electricity is bound to get better thanks to worldwide research, and ii) it is smart not to put all your eggs in the same basket.
I don't think anyone is advocating 100% nuclear energy, but nuclear is the only clean base load energy source. Without nuclear, we're putting all of our eggs in the "renewable energy" basket (assuming the goal is to move off of fossil fuels) and praying for a miracle breakthrough for base load. Considering that it takes decades to bring a new nuclear plant online, decommissioning a nuclear plant is the height of folly. It necessarily means more dependence on fossil fuels and the countries who provide them (in Europe, this largely means Russia).
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
France isn't reducing the capacity as a targetted policy but out of necessity. They have 58 nuclear power plants, most of them quite old (before 80ies). To maintain the current level, they would have to be replaced not too far in the future, but currently only 1 or 2 new reactors are under construction and both late and way over budget. So there currently is no route in maintaining the current capacity. Consequently…
> currently only 1 or 2 new reactors are under construction and both late and way over budget. So in a few decades France has forgotten how to build reactors on time and in an affordable way?
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#137Reducing nuclear power in France seems to be one of the worst decisions you could make in a time when the rest of the world has its head in the sand. From OP: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... > France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over €3 billion per year from this. > In November 2018, a draft of the country's new en…
When people claim to have goal A but do things that run counter to A, you must conclude that their real goal is not goal A but instead some other goal B.
When environmentalist types rail against nuclear power, they reveal their true preferences. They care more about dismantling technological civilization than they do about reducing emissions. If they really cared about emissions as much as they claim to care, they'd support nuclear power out of necessity. They don't, so it's fair to conclude they have unstated goals.
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Nuclear waste is difficult to deal with." This is false. It is easier and safer to store the waste from modern nuclear power plants than waste from production and used solar panels (which are conveniently outsourced to China now due to poor env regulations there)
Do you have sources for that?
Basically, what i've heard before (i only skimmed the source), all solar panel are toxic, because the production create use a lot of chemical and create byproducts. We ignore this, it mostly hit poor areas in China and Africa, and this pollution will disapear in less than a century. The end-of-life is OK for old-style PV. Most "new" type of solar panels however, especially those you put on your own roof, are extremely toxic at their end-of-life, and what's worse is that their toxicity are not due to a chemical compound but to elements. What's even worse is that those elements are heavy metals, so bury even one of those PV panels in the ground and it become cancer-land a few year after.
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#139Whereas Germany has set aside €38 billion to decommission 17 nuclear reactors, and the UK Nuclear Decommissioning Authority estimates that clean-up of UK’s 17 nuclear sites will cost between €109‒250 billion over the next 120 years, France has set aside only €23 billion to decommissioning its 58 reactors. To put this in context, according to the European Commission
That's an impressive range of estimates. Who thinks the lower estimates are realistic?
Re: Nuclear Power in France
#140"Government policy is to reduce this to 50% by 2035." I'm no expert on Nuclear power but it seems to me were going in the wrong direction. At a time when we're investing so much money in other fuels, we could be investing that in better nuclear power, like Small Modular Reactors [1], Sodium Cooled Fission, Small Pellet reactors, etc. [2] [1] https://www.energy.gov/ne/advanced-small-modular-reactors-sm... [2] https://…
Nuclear is always touted as such a good idea on this site, but I want to take the opposite stance. - Nuclear power has inherit risks that are not present in other forms of modern energy generation. You can claim that todays designs are 99.9999999% safe, but there is no such thing as 100%. If humans build it, it will fail, and a single catastrophic nuclear plant failure isn’t acceptable. - Nuclear waste is difficult t…
We've already seen what the worst-case catastrophic failure of a bad plant design yields and it's…
Not that bad frankly, especially from an ecological standpoint.
> - Nuclear waste is difficult to deal with. Our current strategies include finding a secret underground cave, and hoping no one accidentally stumbles onto it. Not to mention we have no plan for dealing with widespread use of nuclear power and the waste that would produce.
The amount of nuclear waste is ridiculously small, the entirety of highly radioactive nuclear waste produced to date fits on a football field 3 stories tall. There are thousands of terrils bigger than that out there.
As for "hoping no one accidentally stumbles onto it", Oklo was pretty hard to find.
> - Nuclear plants take ages to build, and are insanely expensive.
Nuclear plants are like anything else, if you get in the groove they can be built fast and for good prices. At the height of its construction, France completed plants in something like 5 years and had half a dozen going on at any one time.
> They also require massive amounts of concrete (bad for the environment, locally and globally)
So do wind turbines?
> and absurd amounts of space.
Compared to what? Millions of square miles of solar panels? The Paluel Nuclear Plant is 1.6 sq km total, and has the same nameplate capacity as 35 sq km of solar panels. We're talking 35 square kilometers covered entirely in solar cells, once you add access and maintenance you're at 40 or 50.
And that's before accounting for the dismal capacity factor of solar, which increase the surface 2 to 5 folds depending on the location. Or the variability and seasonal unreliability of solar panels.
> - Nuclear is centralized, and vulnerable to attack. In a national defense situation, nuclear power plants are large, easily identifiable, delicate targets that can take an entire area’s grid offline with a single hit to a cooling tower.
You don't seem to realise renewable power plants have centralised collector stations you can hit all the same and take the entire thing offline. And unlike nukes, protection against this sort of events is not part of a substation's usual brief.
> edit: A large number of replies seem to think I am pro-shutdown of plants or pro-coal, but that was never stated. My argument is against further investment into nuclear when there are other more known technologies available, like solar and wind.
All of which have massive drawbacks, and are not incompatible with nuclear plants.