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Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

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Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#41

Post by keeptrying »

I am adding this because it could be something you havent considered but I think you should. Do you love the outdoors?

Essentially tours/activites/travel type of jobs.

1. Hiking tour guide. 2. Give Kiteboarding lessons. 3. Scuba instructor. 4. Travel Writer who goes to different points of the earth and writes about them. 5. Gym trainer. 6. Heli Ski tour operator.

These might seem out there and the pay will be lousy - but I know quite a few kiteboarding instructors and they are some of the fittest and happiest people I have ever known. I'm eventually going to end up like this I think - right after I try founding a few startups. I recently quit my job to start my own startup. (Still in the cycle of customer development).

They have happiness in their soul except when theres no wind and no waves then they become painful to hang around :). But with respect to their health - I dont think I've seen a healthier bunch.

Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#43

Post by mathattack »

keeptrying wrote: post #40
mathattack wrote: post #4

I will let others give you health advice. Just remember that nobody else will take care of yourself except for you. That said, here are some areas I have seen ex-programmers succeed: - Finance - May require another degree but it's an easy transition. The math shouldn't be too hard. It can be in the treasury dept, risk, anything with modeling. - Marketing analysis - you would be surprised how much Math is involved in…

Both Finance and Marketing Analysis will still probably need you to sit at a desk. Being a teacher would probably be better from a "not-sitting" point of view.

True. Very few thinking jobs don't require desk time, and based on the little we've read, thinking is one thing we can infer from the original post.

Some programmers migrate to Sales and other field support jobs, but it's a bigger stretch on skills. Or more precisely - they require certain skills at a high level that aren't as required in programming.

Anything other than superficial "Check out this field" will take more than a couple high level posts. Shoot an email address, and I'm happy to discuss more in depth.

Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#44

Post by kunley »

psykotic wrote: post #16
kunley wrote: post #9

I worked at a building site for a year in a remote place. That was non-profit actually (I also didn't have to spend money for being there) - building a meditation center with friends, but it was great time of my life. I got healthy and had a change to just think of some ideas without rush. I returned to the business with savings somewhat reduced , but with new energy to do stuff. I think with some courage any physica…

> It builds your constitution slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a gym, because it happens in a natural way, not artificially. That has an appealing ring to it but could you be more specific? What's a concrete physical task that could not be accomplished by a well-rounded exerciser? I'm not talking about Mr Biceps Curl and his good friend Mr Triceps Kickback but someone who does a mix of pulling sleds, ca…

Yeah well, when repeating exercises you're becoming good at... the exercises! ;) But not much more.. (OK, I'm simplifying a bit, you do a favor to your body and that will benefit you; but I'd aim for a broader point of view).

By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations. I don't know if something like "muscle memory" has a proper scientific background, but I strongly believe there's something in it. You have to focus, you have to be careful, do things in the right moment, be aware what's going on around, have some introspection of your strength - what you can do and what can't. Whether it is laying concrete or making a wooden roof, the kind of awareness needed is pretty much similar. Plus you spend a lots of time in the fresh air inevitably (at the building site there's no building yet, right? :) which is IMO crucial.

From what I saw the most rewarding physical job I can imagine is to help someone with the carpentry, esp. making roofs. The wood is so beautiful.

There's also one feature of physical work I'm personally very fond of: you usually see direct effects of what you've done very quickly. This is in a big contrast to modern coding, where there are so many layers of abstraction and inter-dependency, we sometimes build stuff months and to the very end we don't know if it really succeeded or not. I have a private theory that instant feedback is very good for psyche.

Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#45

Post by kunley »

psykotic wrote: post #29
zacharycohn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crossfit much? :) I think what he's talking about is the subtle differences between working out and having a job where you're always physically moving. It's the difference between "working out" and "having a healthy lifestyle."

A bunch of the people I went to school with as a young kid are now carpenters, bricklayers, mechanics, etc. A few are quite fit but that's because they're active outside of work. Most of them have big pot bellies, eat like shit, drink too much and are overall not what you'd call healthy. The idea that having a physically-oriented job where you're working outside much of the time tends to lead to a healthy body and li…

I'm not telling about mythics, it's a real life. I don't want to make a system of beliefs here; I responded with an example of experience I lived through.

Of course all depends on the people involved, so carefully choose who you work with, what they respect, how they talk about different things, how they relate to the world, do they love what they do or not. This is important in any activity I guess :)

I was working with German carpenters. They are very disciplined. They were not extremely committed, they just knew what they like to do and they did it in a most sane way. I'm sure you have people like that in the US. It's the kind of mentality which founded US, as far as I can imagine.

Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#46

Post by psykotic »

kunley wrote: post #44
psykotic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It builds your constitution slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a gym, because it happens in a natural way, not artificially. That has an appealing ring to it but could you be more specific? What's a concrete physical task that could not be accomplished by a well-rounded exerciser? I'm not talking about Mr Biceps Curl and his good friend Mr Triceps Kickback but someone who does a mix of pulling sleds, ca…

Yeah well, when repeating exercises you're becoming good at... the exercises! ;) But not much more.. (OK, I'm simplifying a bit, you do a favor to your body and that will benefit you; but I'd aim for a broader point of view). By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations. I don't know if something like "muscle memory" has a proper scientif…

> By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations

You mean like most competitive sports in existence?

Your comparison is also overlooking the physical and mental aspects that are missing in everyday physical work. What you have to become both mentally and physically to deadlift 600 pounds or snatch 250 pounds cannot be emulated. It's a process that takes years and requires constantly overcoming your own fears and perceived limits. When you step under the bar and walk it out in preparation for a heavy back squat, the weight wants to drive you into the floor and you are struggling to even keep yourself standing. But now you have to squat all the way down and all the way back up, for several repetitions multiplied across several sets. That's one exercise for one day. You now have to do that several times a week, for years.

Re: Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers

#47

Post by kunley »

psykotic wrote: post #46
kunley wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah well, when repeating exercises you're becoming good at... the exercises! ;) But not much more.. (OK, I'm simplifying a bit, you do a favor to your body and that will benefit you; but I'd aim for a broader point of view). By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations. I don't know if something like "muscle memory" has a proper scientif…

> By working at the building site, for example, you train your body and your mind to respond in constantly changing situations You mean like most competitive sports in existence? Your comparison is also overlooking the physical and mental aspects that are missing in everyday physical work. What you have to become both mentally and physically to deadlift 600 pounds or snatch 250 pounds cannot be emulated. It's a proce…

Hey.. physical working is not lifting heavy stuff all the day, you know... esp. not when doing carpentry which I explicitly recommended. Your physical effort is kinda split into small chunks, you do different things! It's hardly like a competitive sport, where you do the same small closed set of things for, say, two hours, without interruption.

Please also consider that sports, while wonderful, are still somewhat artificial activity. It's not what you do to get things done, it's just some extra stuff.

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