Is going to the office a broken way of working? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#381

Post by dhedberg » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:12 AM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #353

Valkhyr wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine does not make you fully immune, and the vaccine does not necessarily prevent you carrying and transmitting the virus. It just makes it less likely to happen (and you're certainly much less likely to become a coughing superspreader). I don't know about where you live, but many places in the world have not yet reached levels of vaccination that would make make masking and social distancing redundant.

I had to double check when I read this post to make sure that you were the same person that posted: > Frankly, fuck people who refuse to get vaccinated - they can rot in their own home for all I care (not talking about people with legitimate health risks, obviously). How do you reconcile your apparent disdain for unvaccinated people with the fact that you do not believe the vaccine to be effective? Alternatively, you…

> How do you reconcile your apparent disdain for unvaccinated people with the fact that you do not believe the vaccine to be effective?

I'm not going to defend the choice of words, but nowhere does Valkhyr say that the vaccine isn't effective.

That would be like reading that people still die in car crashes and arrive at the conclusion that seat belts and airbags are useless.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#382

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Going to the office is a broken way of making friends. There should be better places for this.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#383

Post by basisword » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

You've been remote during a global pandemic. That is not normal remote working. Nobody has enjoyed it or found it easy. It sounds like it came at a bad time for you too after moving - that must have been difficult.

I find almost all arguments against remote working seem to based on bad experiences in the last year that are potentially conflating remote work with the pandemic. Sure, some people may truly hate remote work. However, I have quite a few friends who despised it and now that we're back to normal (in the UK) have actually decided they don't want to go back to the office. The commute time + cost of commute is just not worth it. It's equivalent to a sudden pay cut to have to commute again and a pretty significant one at that. Getting your regular social life back makes a huge difference to quality of life when remote working. For most places this hasn't happened yet.

As another anecdotal example there were a loud minority crying out for us to get back to the office at my company. They wanted to be allowed in before all the equipment was back they were so desperate. One person is back full time. About 2-5 others come in once a week on the day the company has started buying lunch. I think a lot of people did want to come back but as the office opened up with the rest of society they've found they don't actually need it for a social life. I bet that in 12 months the company moves to buying a hot desk in a co-working space for the 1-5 people who want to come in and I would bet that within 24 months there's a greater than 50% chance nobody is coming in anymore because the social life they wanted through the office is gone.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#384

Post by ResearchCode » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:19 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #55

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Your perspective is actually very common: Working from home isn't for everyone and we should stop pretending like it's the only way to work. A lot of people dislike remote work. Many people like remote work but can't handle it for various reasons. Internet forums like HN will always overrepresent preferences for remote work because they're biased toward people who enjoy socializing over the internet. Most people don'…

Or, would a clear majority choose remote work if presence at the office was completely optional and there was no career favoritism in the benefit of people choosing to come into the office.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#385

Post by OJFord » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

presentation wrote: post #292

IggleSniggle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. If not "everyone," certainly lots and lots of folks are just staying home whenever possible. Because we are in the middle of a global pandemic. I think this has much more to do with "we are in a global pandemic" than "you can't meet people doing remote work." Certainly, there were a number of larger groups that I used to hang out with consistently pre-pandemic, but now have totally abandoned. I'm not inter…

I know plenty of people who are staying home not because they're worried about COVID, but more because they've come to enjoy the seclusion and convenience of ordering delivery all the time.

As someone who 'enjoyed the convenience of delivery' long before the coronavirus pandemic, it's quite weird to realise that wasn't as normal (then) as it seemed. City bubble I suppose. Or not-having-a-car (hardly unusual for London) bubble.

(I don't mean takeaway food - though it's certainly 'normal' among certain demographics.. - just groceries, Amazon, etc.)

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#386

Post by qwerty456127 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #368

sharken wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France, Germany and Italy have really disappointed with their heavyhanded approach against those that are not vaccinated. With that said, i think many are still a bit cautious after being bombarded with warnings of the Coronavirus for 12 months straight. To me though I'm back to normality and slowly but surely everyone else.

If everybody got the damn vaccine the thing would be over much faster. Not getting vaccinated or wearing a mask is an active effort to prolong the existence of a virus that doesn't give a damn about how people rationalize their bad decisions. And I stopped giving a damn about people who defend the metaphorical licking of rats during a plague. I have yet to hear a good rational reason for not getting a vaccine, that i…

> If everybody got the damn vaccine

There are many people like me who have high level of antibodies, don't really need a vaccine this way (AFAIK there already is enough evidence supporting this) and don't want to get vaccinated with the fastest-baked (least tested) vaccine in history despite being passionately pro-vac when it's about other diseases and better-tested vaccines.

I don't want the damn vaccine. I want the damn immunity which I have (and test for every ~3 months) and the damn government to recognize it.

I also doubt there are many unvaccinated people who still have no antibodies. How could they possibly be so successful in avoiding the virus for so long?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#387

Post by whywhywhywhy » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

dogman144 wrote: post #142

jrockway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always enjoyed the after-work drinking events. Lots of people there that I would never call up and ask "hey want to go to the bar?" but still enjoyed hanging out with. I guess it's not work's job to be your social life, and these after-work events exclude people with families or that don't like alcohol from valuable interactions... but ignoring the global effect, I personally enjoyed them. Now that everyone is remo…

Definitely makes sense. A response I can offer you is this, And it’s loaded with empathy because I def get that people derived real fun from it. A lot of people attended those after-hour drinks as the semi-mandatory things they are, either for career survival or career acceleration reasons. This was always a large background narrative, and the death of it as of now is a nice thing. I’d take quarterly team dinners and…

You might be surprised to realize in a few years that they haven't died, you're just excluded from them.

You might not like it, but after work drinking is one of the areas where a lot of the meat of innovation and progression in the company happens.

I think a lot of people who double down on full remote are going to be surprised when they wake up in 5 years and realize they're pretty stagnant and have just become cogs to do the boring work. Which they might be fine with but I'm sure I'll be reading comments from them complaining about how their pay matches that too.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#388

Post by kwhitefoot » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:41 AM UTC

distrill wrote: post #279

zmmmmm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers: > able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating. I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reve…

Even for something quick, I will type up a question and then go over it a few times, make some edits, probably provide some links for context. It just feels like a bigger deal than just asking someone next to you. In person they can cut me off when they start to get it, or I can tell from their face that I need to keep going with more context, it's just more more collaborative. In chat I'll either end up having to an…

> In person they can cut me off when they start to get it,

the problem is that you have already interrupted their flow. Getting back into that takes valuable time.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#389

Post by 4ggr0 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 10:51 AM UTC

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #375

irrational wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what everyone means by anti-vaxxer right now. If you are opposed to the covid vaccine, you are an anti-vaxxer.

And if you're blindly supporting what your government muppets are throwing at you in a simulation of competence you are a believer .

Everytime I hear or read what anti-vaxxers have to say, it feels like the person on the other end is a teenager who has watched The Matrix for the first time while having smoked a tad bit too much weed.

"THEY control us and manipulate everything, bruh! You're just a sheeple."

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#390

Post by wsc981 » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 11:01 AM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Life is what you make of it. Also, I guess working remotely doesn't fit everyone's personality.

But I've been working remotely 4 years now and there's no way I will ever be going back into the office. As a matter of fact, I plan to buy a condo near the beach maybe end of this year or start of next year. This condo will eventually be my office, but now it will just be for holidays. It will have a nice olympic size swimming pool and a nice assortment of restaurants next to a beach road. The beach road will be nice to walk daily one or two times (at night seeing the sun go down into the sea). The swimming pool will be nice for a little break and exercise in the afternoon. For me this setup will be perfect.

My current setup is not perfect since I work from home and still have distractions from my girlfriend (e.g. cleaning the room, calling out for food and small shopping chores, etc...).

I thrive when I am in a space with zero distractions and I hope to have this space in the future in the form of my very own condo office :)