Live data from Hacker News

Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

eandt.theiet.org

161–170 of 220 posts

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#161

This is great and points to how solar in some cases already can facilitate continuous operation without the need for refueling of planes, boats, cars, you name it. Expect this to grow as battery and solar cell tech develops further. My favorites atm are the yachts that are capable of sailing just about anywhere in the world without a drop of fuel. The price is prohibitive, but considering that you might not need a ho…

Most sea going sailboats, and many others, are perfectly capable of sailing around the world, without any fuel. Solar panels are only needed to charge batteries, that are only needed if you want the extras: GPS, radio, other communications. 2 panels and 2 batteries are good enough for most boats, for 1 to 4 persons, traveling for anywhere around 1-2 months across the seas. The limitations are water, and food storage. The solar and batteries are good for years, easily up to 5 years. Humans need other things though. It's not the boats or the technology its the price that limits. (You can buy an ocean cruising bust for 20k USD, easy.) But, it is a life style commitment!

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting last point...curious why is that? Do they get battered from weather and physically tear, or do they just stretch/thin over time?

Racers use very thin, light, and stiff sails made from mylar or similar materials. They are typically very expensive and want to be changed as often as possible, at least once every racing season. Modern small pleasure yacht cruising sails "canvas" is laminated polyester, aka dacron, which is far thicker, more durable, springier, and more common than mylar. It's an interesting question, where does the wear come from.…

Thanks. As someone who has never and doesn't ever plan to sail, this taught me lot.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#163

This is great and points to how solar in some cases already can facilitate continuous operation without the need for refueling of planes, boats, cars, you name it. Expect this to grow as battery and solar cell tech develops further. My favorites atm are the yachts that are capable of sailing just about anywhere in the world without a drop of fuel. The price is prohibitive, but considering that you might not need a ho…

[deleted]

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#164
post #154
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX are launching satellites with ("frickin") lasers now. So, if you are in the middle of the ocean, your packets step between satellites on the same orbit, forward or back, until they get in range of a node. First actual use is for polar service. On certain routes, packets will be artificially delayed so that high-speed traders can pay big bucks to get their packets through first, ahead of fiber. And, maybe pay e…

Is there any real world test data out for going over the laser interlinks yet? I know there have been Elon Musk tweets on the topic, but he tends to tweet from a spherical cow engineering world when looking at future specs. From very early on the "much lower latency due to the speed of light in a vacuum" posts have been repeated but there is a non negligible number of routing decisions and hops in the starlink mesh a…

Let's look at numbers. NYC->LDN great-circle distance is 5576 km. At altitude, that is (3959+547)/3959 * 5576 = 6346 km. Idealized path is thus 547 * 2 + 6346 = 7420 km. (Actually a bit less because the path is part of a polygon, not an arc.) Non-ideal path, for satellites not directly overhead, is more like 7900 km, worst case more. Still, transit time, light through vacuum, is Compare to fiber. Best ping time is 76 ms, or 38 ms one way. So, our budget margin is 10 ms. Suppose, instead of a direct downlink, packets are dumped to a nearby hub and carried via 1000 km of fiber to the destination, with various routing delays, adding 5 ms, leaving a 5 ms lead, 5000 microseconds.

In finance, we say a microsecond is an eon, a millisecond an eternity. That is because in a microsecond we can do >1k multiplications. 5 ms is time for >5M multiplications, many more than needed to evaluate a position and choose a response.

The only routing choices are which satellite to uplink to, and whether to forward or downlink each packet. Whatever choices are made don't need to be re-evaluated more than per second. Packet queuing delay can be negligible; modern switching equipment will start forwarding a packet while the rest is still arriving; this would happen when forwarding via laser link.

The latency advantage for New York/London/Frankfurt Singapore/Tokyo/Hong Kong would be even more compelling.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#165
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX are launching satellites with ("frickin") lasers now. So, if you are in the middle of the ocean, your packets step between satellites on the same orbit, forward or back, until they get in range of a node. First actual use is for polar service. On certain routes, packets will be artificially delayed so that high-speed traders can pay big bucks to get their packets through first, ahead of fiber. And, maybe pay e…

There is a whole world there I do not know and don't really want to. What a strange world we live in.

Yes. You can think of it as automated stealing. Much of the inequity could be eliminated by imposing a per-transaction tax.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#166
post #161

This is great and points to how solar in some cases already can facilitate continuous operation without the need for refueling of planes, boats, cars, you name it. Expect this to grow as battery and solar cell tech develops further. My favorites atm are the yachts that are capable of sailing just about anywhere in the world without a drop of fuel. The price is prohibitive, but considering that you might not need a ho…

Most sea going sailboats, and many others, are perfectly capable of sailing around the world, without any fuel. Solar panels are only needed to charge batteries, that are only needed if you want the extras: GPS, radio, other communications. 2 panels and 2 batteries are good enough for most boats, for 1 to 4 persons, traveling for anywhere around 1-2 months across the seas. The limitations are water, and food storage.…

Food can be stored longer by refrigeration, which requires power. Similarly water can be desalinated, which again requires power. Solar & batteries can help with both of these.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#167
post #164
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any real world test data out for going over the laser interlinks yet? I know there have been Elon Musk tweets on the topic, but he tends to tweet from a spherical cow engineering world when looking at future specs. From very early on the "much lower latency due to the speed of light in a vacuum" posts have been repeated but there is a non negligible number of routing decisions and hops in the starlink mesh a…

Let's look at numbers. NYC->LDN great-circle distance is 5576 km. At altitude, that is (3959+547)/3959 * 5576 = 6346 km. Idealized path is thus 547 * 2 + 6346 = 7420 km. (Actually a bit less because the path is part of a polygon, not an arc.) Non-ideal path, for satellites not directly overhead, is more like 7900 km, worst case more. Still, transit time, light through vacuum, is Compare to fiber. Best ping time is 76…

that crap should be banned... if only rich folk can do these trades it is not fair for everyone else.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#168
post #91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sails have several major downsides, most notably they take up a lot of deck space and cause a boat to tilt to the side. If you’re regularly sailing long distances it’s much faster but top speed isn’t that big of a deal when your living on the boat full time. Other options like kites and wind turbines can work well but they all all significant upfront costs as well as ongoing maintenance issues. Spending that same mon…

> Sails have several major downsides[..] Yes, but it makes less noise.

a sail (especially when luffing) is really f**ing loud

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#169
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at numbers. NYC->LDN great-circle distance is 5576 km. At altitude, that is (3959+547)/3959 * 5576 = 6346 km. Idealized path is thus 547 * 2 + 6346 = 7420 km. (Actually a bit less because the path is part of a polygon, not an arc.) Non-ideal path, for satellites not directly overhead, is more like 7900 km, worst case more. Still, transit time, light through vacuum, is Compare to fiber. Best ping time is 76…

that crap should be banned... if only rich folk can do these trades it is not fair for everyone else.

Or anyway taxed.

Re: Solar-powered aircraft flown for nearly three weeks without landing

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not soaking your house in salt water really helps with longevity I've found

For sure. Even then, the techniques used by builders at the beach seem to allow houses to endure a long time.

You’ve gotta replace some stuff yearly on those houses by ocean spray, it’s actually a bigger problem than it might seem
Post reply on HN