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Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

sam.odio.com

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Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#241

Post by burgerbrain »

derefr wrote: post #235
burgerbrain wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of fucking course it can be both a social experiment and a good will fund. It's a fucking social experiment about a good will fund for crying out loud. You people are really starting to stretch, what is really going on here? Do you hate coffee? Starbucks? People who drink at starbucks? People with money? People who aim to show that most people are basically good? What is it?

> You people Are you trying to speak to the reference class that includes me? I don't drink coffee (I dislike the taste, but I wouldn't say I hate it), but I also don't have a Starbucks anywhere close enough to me that I would bother to visit it. The only thing I've done with this card is read about it. Now, what I am is a game designer. What I'm trying to say by calling this a "social experiment," is that a system h…

"> You people"

I am referencing the distinct group of people who appear to be defending Sam Odio. What seems to be going on is there are a few members of society, Sam Odio seemingly included, who believe that since Sam Odio was "participating" in the experiment that we should not criticise his actions. This shows an aborted understanding of right and wrong, for it is very possible for Sam Odio to both have participated in the experiment (I object to the suggestion that he did, but lets ignore my objection for now) and for Sam Odio to have acted in a morally reprehensible fashion deserving of a great deal of criticism. The more I think about it now this morning, the more I realize that this sounds like a case of aspergers.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#242

Post by burgerbrain »

kelnos wrote: post #236
burgerbrain wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of thumb is that unless you are discussing 1930s international politics, if you need to refer to Hitler in order to make your point, then you have already lost the argument. Any point worth making has more appropriate ways of making it.

No, you've lost the argument when you've failed to make your point. I don't believe that to be the case here. "Reductio ad Hitlerium" isn't a real logical fallacy, it's just a joke someone made up and we've allowed to perpetuate.

You misunderstand the purpose of logical fallacies. They do not indicate when someone has lost the argument. In fact, the belief that this is the case is itself a logical fallacy.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#243

Post by TranceaddicT »

derefr wrote: post #235
burgerbrain wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of fucking course it can be both a social experiment and a good will fund. It's a fucking social experiment about a good will fund for crying out loud. You people are really starting to stretch, what is really going on here? Do you hate coffee? Starbucks? People who drink at starbucks? People with money? People who aim to show that most people are basically good? What is it?

> You people Are you trying to speak to the reference class that includes me? I don't drink coffee (I dislike the taste, but I wouldn't say I hate it), but I also don't have a Starbucks anywhere close enough to me that I would bother to visit it. The only thing I've done with this card is read about it. Now, what I am is a game designer. What I'm trying to say by calling this a "social experiment," is that a system h…

I guess you dismissed the part were he said "have a cup of COFFEE on me" (my emphasis) as an implicit rule governing the use of the funds. So you are saying if it can be done it okay. He was wrong to hack it and you are wrong for trying to intellectualize his actions.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#244

Post by TranceaddicT »

kennywinker wrote: post #174
burgerbrain wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Care to give your definition of goodwill? Or are you just going to repeat things and not justify your apparent condescension?

Sure, it's goodwill... just the really empty kind of goodwill that makes everyone feel good but nobody actually better off. Sorry, I probably came off more condescending than I intended. I'm only trying to inject a measure of perspective. People (yourself included) are acting like this was a "miserable" and "disgusting" thing to do. He could have stolen the money and never said a word (which would have been lame), bu…

Actually, the goodwill generated is that of knowing that there are otherzs in the world that are kind, just and fair just like you. It was a miserable thing to do. First it started as simple mischief when he created a hack. It progressed to diabolical when he actually took funds. It reached nothing less than evil when he posted the hack for others to inflict the same evil.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#245

Post by davesims »

burgerbrain wrote: post #230
KleinmanB wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism, Nazism and any other 'isms are all considered social experiments. I am not comparing your actions to those, but you cannot hide behind a statement like that.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Godwin%27s_la... Familiarize yourself.

We need a new law that predicts how long it will take for someone to invoke Godwin's law after anyone mentions anything related to Nazis.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#246

Post by TranceaddicT »

mattdeboard wrote: post #225
TranceaddicT wrote: post #195

Guess Sam couldn't handle the heat. He cutoff commenting on his G+ thread. Hmmm, could he finally be realizing that he messed up and actually did wire fraud and stole money?

No, because a bunch of assholes were threatening him with bodily harm

And you'd be wrong as well. NO ONE in all the various discourses covering this nefarious act has ever threatened him nor has anyone called for or promoted physical violence.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#247

Post by TranceaddicT »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #238
burgerbrain wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Better things to do that steal coffees from wealthy Americans in order to feed starving people ..." Why stop at coffee? Steal their cars too. Evict them from their homes and set up shelters in them. Kidnap their children and hold them for ransom. "see this as a really interesting, surprising outcome of the experiment, not a "subversion" of it." The Stanford Prison Experiment was invalidated by people acting grossly…

> Why stop at coffee? // Because missing out on a cup of coffee is not going to really affect anyone involved in this experiment in any significant way. They probably drink too much of it anyway. > The Stanford Prison Experiment was invalidated // Excuse me? It was a highly successful experiment it demonstrating how moral judgement can be manipulated, how people react to roles and outward signs of authority. To say a…

No, but it certainly does destroy the experiment in the process.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#248

Post by pbhjpbhj »

burgerbrain wrote: post #240
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why stop at coffee? // Because missing out on a cup of coffee is not going to really affect anyone involved in this experiment in any significant way. They probably drink too much of it anyway. > The Stanford Prison Experiment was invalidated // Excuse me? It was a highly successful experiment it demonstrating how moral judgement can be manipulated, how people react to roles and outward signs of authority. To say a…

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Stanford_pris... Contrary to popular believe, the scientific value of the experiment was lost. It's only real value today in the field is as an example of how not to run an experiment.

>the scientific value of the [Standford Prison] experiment was lost //

I strongly disagree. It has informed psychological experiment strongly since, yes partly by being an example of how not to conduct experiments but not wholly. It has also strongly informed understanding of human nature and the conditions in which minimal pressure can modify moral action.

Under test was how "assignment of a label" would affect the development of "norms, rules and expectations". The results showed how such assignment could affect a persons character dramatically even to the point of drawing in Zimbardo to the point that he had to be corrected by his partner to stop the experiment.

http://www.prisonexp.org/links.htm is a good source.

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#249

Post by usedtolurk »

I'm surprised at the outraged expressed in this thread.

Everybody expects participants in this experiment to be divided into givers and takers, right? Why would anybody donate and then claim if they could just buy their own cup? The very nature of the thing is that both party's are anonymous, so the givers have no right or expectation to the "worthiness" of the taker or the purpose it is put to (on-selling included). However, it is clear that the hope and intention is to spread good will and kindness.

Originally, Jonathan provided a means to distribute these gifts to random strangers. The demographic was somewhat limited by technical and geographic constraints but Sam figured out a way to broaden (a small portion of) the benefits to a wider audience. To my mind that is entirely in keeping with the spirit of the original experiment (i.e. spreading goodwill and kindness).

Also, it's worth noting that Sam did not explicitly moralize about this - other than to say that he didn't "find the idea of yuppies buying yuppies coffees very interesting".

Can anyone explain why it has provoked such an aggressive response?

EDIT: I've no connection with Jonathan or Sam or Starbucks (really).

Re: Use Jonathan's card to buy yourself an iPad

#250

Post by prbuckley »

johndoe12 wrote: post #226

This is the same Sam Odio that had a scam Iraqi Dinar exchange... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcq2LXSAn_U The service received a cease and desist letter from the government... http://www.iraqidinarmoney.com/dinar-profits/ Sam Odio seems to exhibit the traits of a sociopath,defined by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual as "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation…

I am claiming responsibility for the above comment. It was wrong of me to leave such a snarky comment from a sock puppet account. Someone pointed this out to me so I am trying to do the right thing by taking responsibility for it.

The reason I left the comment is that I myself am a YC alum and it makes my quite upset when I see members of the YC community behaving in ethically questionable ways. It reflects poorly on the YC community and threatens the reputation of the entire program.

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