This is very cool. I wish I were more mechanically inclined. One of my fantasies is buying an end-of-lifed helicopter turbine and building a tractor around it, but I wouldn't even know where to begin.
Open Source Tractor
141–150 of 213 posts
Re: Open Source Tractor
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like tractors are like AK-47s, kinda de facto grandfathered in before Neo-liberalism and Globalization made exporting IP law a big part part of of geopolitics.
Basic tractors, like the AK-47, are also designable by most decent mechanical engineering students without a lot of work if they spent an afternoon googling first for prior art (and that prior art has long had any patents expire). Which if there is an ecosystem related to this, that’s great as the manufacturing is where you need economies of scale pretty badly and everyone benefits from it. There is no also no need f…
Look, I really want open source to meet the "real world", and not be stuck as another "socialism for the rich" where companies can do things on the cheap but the software is useless to the average person as an alternative to anything. (Great example: Google using Linux in Android does not mean the user is any more free of advertizing and spying!)
But unless I misunderstand what this is for, I think the economies of scale needed are in way fancier things like combine harvesters. When farmers decry the rent-seeking of John Deere, I don't think they are talking about basic tractor-bulldozers? Conversely, as the other replies say, there is little issue with decades-old-style tractors, right?
What I really want to see is an open source Khrushchyovka. The worlds needs more cities, not villages.
Re: Open Source Tractor
#143IMHO "open source" is not the right term for this because, besides sounding like it was created by people with a software-centric view, it legitimises the application of Imaginary Property laws to physical objects --- something that is a relatively recent phenomenon and one that I think should not continue. Perhaps "open design" or similar would be more representative of the intent.
For example, the automotive aftermarket is so prolific and complete that you can build an entire stereotypical mid-century car with entirely aftermarket parts, but I wouldn't call that "open source". People have also been making tractors out of car parts for a long time (there are some old magazines with plans for such), as well as fixing heavy equipment by making their own parts --- look at various YouTube channels for examples; and I don't think any of this is comparable, nor should it be, to the quagmire of IP laws that the software world is subjected to.
tl;dr: Good intent, bad naming and perhaps some ignorance of how the physical hardware world operates.
Re: Open Source Tractor
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who has worked in agriculture their entire life, there is nothing cheap about farming equipment. Every year it gets more and more prohibitively expensive and experiences more and more vendor lock-in. While this solution appears fairly rudimentary, I think there's a real demand for more simplistic, compatible, and capable farm machinery when combines are a million a piece and tractors are a quarter that.
A 28hp tractor tamed the world once upon a time. Back when a family could work their hearts out on a 100 acre farm. A single family with a 28hp tractor cannot farm 1000 acres effectively. It's hard to find 10 families each with a 28hp tractor willing to go all-in to farm 1000 acres. And if you could, they'd get wiped out by the conglomerate that uses a stable of million dollar combines to farm 20,000 acres. A Califor…
The problem is that this solution isn't even close to being realistic. 28HP engines are not created equal and this engine isn't anything like the old 28HP engines from tractors of yesteryear. The tires are wrong, hydraulic drive is wrong, no PTO yet, etc. Bolting tube together on a moving machine like this, WTF. The tube works free over time as it collapses which will cause play and egging of the holes. This is completely wrong. They need to go back and study the tractors built in the late 30s and early 40s and copy those. This is nothing but a mess. Are any of these people mechanical engineers who have built Ag equipment?
Re: Open Source Tractor
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of 3 point hitch and PTO would rule it out completely for me.
Those are nice-to-haves, but realistically most farming tasks can be performed without them. Source: ran a 15-acre veggie farm for 2 years with nothing but a BCS walking tractor.
I priced out BCS and Grillo units when I first moved here and in the end ended up getting a subcompact hydrostatic tractor and it frankly has probably worked out better for me (6.5 acre property ... 1/2 acre vineyard/orchard, 1/2 acre garlic + market garden veggies).
It's likely because the importation of the BCS units into Canada just ends up making them and the attachments quite expensive. If I was in Europe, or even the US, I think they'd be more cost effective.
The tractor + loader ended up being a more useful overall implement because the loader is just invaluable on a rural property generally. So many things made easier by being able to move around heavy loads. And snow clearance with a 70" snowblower is an entirely different story than walking behind a 30" one. I used to have Gravely walk behind with a snowblower on it and my back suffered for it.
I have 3ph rototiller, snowblower, rotary mower, posthole auger, toolbar with discs, s-tines, wood chipper, and single bottom plow. And access to a bunch of other stuff from the neighbours. All of those things would be potentially cheaper for a BCS unit, but much harder to get, and less powerful. The used market for standard 3ph attachments is much easier to deal with rather than the niche walk-behind stuff.
On the lower end I use a wheel hoe. And I'm currently working on restoring and electrifying an old planet jr unit.
The BCS and Grillo units are really neat. But the small farm market isn't big enough for them here to get proper dealer support, used equipment supply, and deal with the importation issues. All of the neat attachments weren't available to me without dealing with Earth Tools in the US, with all the brokerage and customs and shippings issues that would come with that.
Re: Open Source Tractor
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lack of 3 point hitch and PTO would rule it out completely for me.
We've some work on a three point hitch here: https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Three_point_hitches Hydraulic motors with PTO splined shafts are widely available like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag...
They are terribly inefficient and who is going to be servicing all these hydraulics in the 3rd world? Every farming town in the USA has someone who can make custom hydro lines quickly. How many of those shops in Africa?
Re: Open Source Tractor
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This demonstrates the power of open source. These engineers are to be commended. if you haven't seen the famous Open Source Ecology pitch by Marcin Jakubowski, you're in for a treat! Open-sourced blueprints for civilization | Marcin Jakubowski , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GEMkvT0DEk
I need to watch that! I'm developing an algorithmically-driven civilization architecture concept. (in the sense of, how to organize society from a blank slate point of view, while maximizing the wealth of experience for all individuals? I think we've gotten a little caught up in ideology and culture wars and stopped looking for ideas to move society forward with more efficient, humane, robust, collaborative (or adver…
Re: Open Source Tractor
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've some work on a three point hitch here: https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Three_point_hitches Hydraulic motors with PTO splined shafts are widely available like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Motors/Ag...
They are terribly inefficient and who is going to be servicing all these hydraulics in the 3rd world? Every farming town in the USA has someone who can make custom hydro lines quickly. How many of those shops in Africa?
Petrol engines are inefficient. Solar panels are inefficient. Your and my metabolisms are inefficient. Suitability to purpose matters more in my humble opinion. Alongside modularity and reusability.
Please contribute anything you know about custom hydraulic lines to https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Main_Page - I will approve accounts for any hackernews folk who request one.
Re: Open Source Tractor
#149This project is terrific. People are critical of what it doesn't do, I'm in awe of what it does do. You're going to have little two man shops in Africa and Asia cranking these out and changing agriculture in their part of the world. This demonstrates the power of open source. These engineers are to be commended.
I doubt that IP of tractor designs is a major factor in third world poverty. I’m sure there are factories in Asia pumping out cheap tractors already
It's not. Third world countries have much bigger concerns than policing the first world's imaginary property. Mostly they'll just ignore any violations for as long as economically viable. If it's important enough, HIV medications for example, they'll even make the fact they don't care about patents official.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110105/01260212521/paten...
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world/brazil-ignores-us-giant...
Re: Open Source Tractor
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re making oblique references and (I guess?) assuming that some conclusion is obvious. A more direct statement of your point might help here.
> A more direct statement of your point might help here. abolish Silicon Valley. [1] [1] Wendy Liu, https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley
There is a school of economics that claims to oppose the upwardly mobile rich but in fact mostly harms the upwardly mobile poor. Linguistic patterns are no proof of motive but they certainly indicate who an author is writing for.