Is going to the office a broken way of working? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#231

Post by justrudd » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #190

zmmmmm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers: > able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating. I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reve…

Our work is very collaborative and being able to get quick feedback on some issue is nice. Having to ping them over chat is annoying because while it may result in a quick answer it may also just disappear into the ether (or the chat app fails to deliver, the person steps away but you don't know this, etc.). Again, our work is collaborative and if someone wants to be left alone they throw on headphones in which case…

If I may, what industry do you work in that needs this level of collaboration and such a quick turnaround on it?

I agree with you that it can be nice. But in thinking back on my career, I’ve never been in an industry that needed it (beyond dealing with operational events).

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#232

Post by lkrubner » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I've said this before on Hacker News, and now I wish to repeat, if you live in New York City, I host a once-a-month party, mostly for tech people. Very informal. You can get the vibe from the photos here:

http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/everyone-was-amazing-...

It's simply meant to give people a chance to meet other like minded people. Especially in this era of working-from-home it is too easy to end up feeling isolated, so hosting a regular party like this is, I think, a non-stressful way for people to connect.

I mentioned this 78 days ago and 6 people from Hacker News have been attending the most recent 3 parties:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27952414

You can text me at 434 825 7694

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#233

Post by jokethrowaway » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

smt88 wrote: post #114

sim_card_map wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life has always been normal here in Sweden. No lockdowns, mask mandates, restaurants have always been open. And no excess deaths. So don't speak for everyone.

> And no excess deaths. False[1][2][3][4][5]. Sweden had 7.7% higher mortality in 2020 than it averaged from 2016-2019. By comparison, Sweden's closest neighbors (geographically, demographically, and socioeconomically) had far, far lower mortality because of lockdowns, mask mandates, and closing restaurants[3][4]. > "Sweden, with a COVID-19 attributed death rate of 0.54 per 1000 population as of July 5, has a higher…

Is freedom worth a few deaths? Sure

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#234

Post by snek_case » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

void_mint wrote: post #196

Ancalagon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

> It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now? The pandemic is probably a bigger deal to others than it is to you.

From what I'm seeing it's kind of a chicken and egg problem. A lot of people are happy/eager to return to normal, but there aren't a lot of events, there are still restrictions in place, and people are no longer used to seeing people as much. I include myself in that. I'd like to go to events, but I don't really spend much time looking for them, because I assume said events aren't happening.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#235

Post by Agingcoder » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:27 PM UTC

techwizard81 wrote: post #150

Agingcoder wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want an app - I like my coworkers and enjoy having lunch with them. It's the other, pleasant part of work : social interactions with people I know. They are also sometimes necessary, ie you will sometimes solve problems more efficiently over lunch/coffee than by email / Skype. Furthermore, not everyone has a 1h+ commute to the office and lives in an expensive area - I know plenty of people with short commutes…

The point of the person you are replying to is why do you need this social interaction with people you barely know (because be honest, you don’t really know these people) versus social interaction with your friends?

Because if I'm honest, I do know them. I've been working for several years at the same place, have made friends, had lunch/dinner/beers/coffees, been to weddings, etc. Some of them are not friends, but I am happy to see them, just like I enjoy talking to my butcher or fruit seller.

Maybe it's an age/cultural thing, but I'm going to spend quite a bit of time working, so I'd rather do it with people I like. Inevitably, because we like each other, we're happy to see each other, hence the office is a good place to go to. And if I don't know them yet, there's no reason why I shouldn't meet anyone interesting at the office.

I also enjoy talking about my work with like minded people : not my friends, but co-workers. The best conversations happen over beers, coffees, meals, etc which require physical interactions.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#236

Post by justrudd » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #133

nzmsv wrote: post #26

All you need to know about requiring work from an office is this: the people selling the supposed benefits of increased collaboration, creativity, and productivity do not themselves work this way. There is no CEO or VC who spends their entire day sitting in a cubicle, even if they have a token one.

That is worth mentioning, but it is far from 'all you need to know'. My job role is completely different from the CEO of my company, so I wouldn't expect them to work in the same environment I do. If my CEO's job entailed sitting in a cubicle all day I'd find another company to work for.

Reminds me of a place I worked 7 or 8 years ago? The CEO was big on the “I’m just one of you” trope. They had a cubicle the same as everyone else. They dropped their bag off every morning, had pictures, a couple of plants, etc.

But…

There was a conference room literally right across from their cubicle that had a recurring 10 hour 5 day a week meeting in it. 2 guesses who that recurring meeting belonged to.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#237

Post by malaya_zemlya » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

nzmsv wrote: post #26

All you need to know about requiring work from an office is this: the people selling the supposed benefits of increased collaboration, creativity, and productivity do not themselves work this way. There is no CEO or VC who spends their entire day sitting in a cubicle, even if they have a token one.

YMMV at my last job, at one of the Bay Area unicorns, I sat right across the founder's desk and he was working there like the rest of us.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#238

Post by soylentnewsorg » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:29 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Here's the thing though: you should not socialize with anyone at the office. The healthiest thing anyone can do for their career is to not mix work and friends. Once you're friends, you're sharing political opinions, life stories, and religious views. People pick up on that, and while you might be pleasing one guy, you're pissing off someone else. No matter your stance on something, you're going to be pissing off someone.

Work is for work - not a social life. Yes, it's easy to make friends at work because like in middle school, you're forced together and don't need to break the ice. Very tempting - very bad for the career.

What is good for both the career and getting friends is maintaining contact with compatible people from the office once you're out of there, and becoming friends with those people. That works.

Now, as far as missing simple human contact while you're at the office - I fully understand that. The problem is, you're forced into that human contact. That's probably healthy, but here's what I do: take a trip for groceries every other day and buy things fresh. Walk around, look for deals, take a full hour. Believe it or not, that alone is enough, as long as you keep doing it. The best part of being remote is you can do that smack in the middle of the day, take a little break from work and break that day up into two smaller parts - not when you're tired after a workday.

I do live with my wife though, so maybe don't need as much human contact. But using work for socializing in the office - ugh.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#239

Post by kingludite » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

There is a good bit of factory work where human labor is reduced to quality control. You look at a conveyor belt and wait for the defective product to come along. Machine learning would work but still has issues with calibration. It either has false positives, lets defects pass or it does both. If you aim for plenty of false positives and put a human observer in the system to review the camera footage they too can do their work from home. You wont have to pay western salaries either.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#240

Post by snek_case » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #76

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is actually very common: Working from home isn't for everyone and we should stop pretending like it's the only way to work. A lot of people dislike remote work. Many people like remote work but can't handle it for various reasons. Internet forums like HN will always overrepresent preferences for remote work because they're biased toward people who enjoy socializing over the internet. Most people don'…

I don’t think there is any need to defend in person work. Until very recently it was the only socially accepted form of work. As the default, we all have a little experience in it.

> I don’t think there is any need to defend in person work.

There is a need to defend it though. I've already seen several businesses claim that remote work is "the future". Personally, I feel that remote work has been very detrimental to my mental health and I hate it. I don't want that future. It feels very unhealthy.