Is going to the office a broken way of working? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#191

Post by orangecat » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #167

Ancalagon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

People don't want to get covid. Getting close to large groups or new groups feels unsafe. Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.

Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.

This is silly if you're vaccinated and not in an unusually high risk group.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#192

Post by stevage » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

pimterry wrote: post #120

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Coworking is a really great solution to this. You can have all the human contact and "it's 6pm - want to go for a beer?" easy socializing that you get from being in a busy office, but simultaneously keep almost all the flexibility and the lack-of-constraints of working from home (...almost - there's usually an expectation that you wear clothes). In many ways it's even better than office social contact: it decouples t…

I have tried this but struggled to find people in coworking spaces that I wanted to socialise with.

The one time it has worked was when friends who worked in the same niche sector would sometimes all cowork at a cafe for a day. Maybe once a month. That was incredible. We were expected to be in our offices most of the time though.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#193

Post by void_mint » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

> I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office.

I'm sorry you're having a tough time with it. That sounds really unpleasant.

> My company is hybrid at the moment and I’m actually writing this from the very empty office. Things just aren’t the same.

Ignoring the pandemic, it sounds like the people at your company just don't agree that in-person work is necessary for them to get what they need out of their employment. The issue is either side attempting to force its preferred working conditions on the other. aka the solution isn't to make all of those people that don't want to be in an office come in again, but instead for you to find companies/circles that have people with similar interests as you. Being around people that don't want to be around you is unpleasant for both sides.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#194

Post by nanis » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

> Is Going to the Office a Broken Way of Working?

No, it is not. I recommend trying to understand "The F-Connection: Families, Friends, and Firms and the Organization of Exchange"[1].

Firms consist of humans. Humans need human connections. One frequently finds a new job due to a connection with a friend. And, while you don't have to love everyone you work with, one does develop (or used to develop) friendships at work. Or, on the way to work. Or, during lunch break.

When everyone lives in their little pod and only connect with work over video conferencing, their very human connection to other people in their firm weakens.

I understand this is appealing to people who are only familiar with living in a bedroom community, hopping on the company bus every morning where they stare at their laptop screens, go to the company campus and not interact with the outside world, and repeat the same trip in the other direction in the evening.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, people who just want to live in their own pods seem to have the power to determine our destiny.

sigh

[1]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972655

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#195

Post by screye » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

fullshark wrote: post #105

jedberg wrote: post #11

My friend runs a company that is remote first in the way described here. They have employees all over the world, but they all get together at some random place on the planet (pre-covid) about once every two months. The employees love it because of all the free trips around the world (and often tie their vacation to the beginning or end of a meeting so they can explore that place on their own) and it's great for the c…

Being forced to travel somewhere random on the planet every two months for work and live out of a hotel room sounds terrible frankly. The company would have to spend lavishly and find exotic / fun locations I think otherwise I'd resent it and quit. Ultimately the ideal is not a one size fits all solution but different companies developing different cultures remote/hybrid/in person strategies and employees having opti…

> Being forced to travel somewhere random on the planet every two months for work and live out of a hotel room sounds terrible frankly. The company would have to spend lavishly and find exotic / fun locations I think otherwise I'd resent it and quit.

There is always someone huh. Such an arrangement literally sounds like the dream remote arrangement to me. It never even crossed my mind that there would be people who would say no to a fully paid pseudo-vacation every couple of months.

I am completely unable to empathize.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#196

Post by void_mint » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #59

taurath wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

> It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

The pandemic is probably a bigger deal to others than it is to you.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#197

Post by renewiltord » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #59

taurath wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

No. People are more eager than ever to meet. I have made more friends than ever before.

However, I definitely give new people who are übermaskers a bit of a wide berth mostly out of respect for them.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#198

Post by snek_case » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #167

Ancalagon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the other point I wanted to make (but frankly I was too scared that maybe it’s just because I suck at meeting people now that I haven’t socialized like a normal person in a year). It just seems harder to meet people _in general_ than it did even two years ago. Like where is everybody? Does everyone stay home literally all the time now?

People don't want to get covid. Getting close to large groups or new groups feels unsafe. Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.

Personally, I'm vaccinated and I feel pretty safe. I'd like to resume a more normal way of life. It's just that there's nothing happening. There's no office, no happy hour or hanging out after work. Very few dinner or coffee invitations. No meetups. No going out dancing. Just way less events in general.

> Going out unnecessary feels socially unacceptable.

Human beings are social creatures and it's normal that we have a need to see people and connect. The directive to self-isolate has been very detrimental for a lot of people's mental health. I'm privileged enough to have access to a therapist, but I feel like I'm kind of on the edge of depression, very apathetic about life.

I don't want to make this a political discussion, it's hard to balance self-sacrifice vs the greater good, but we've all sacrificed a lot considering this disease has killed about 6.2 people per ten thousand over the last 18 months, whereas about 200 people per ten thousand would have died otherwise. Are we going to keep this up for several more years? What's the impact on our society going to be?

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#199

Post by idiotsecant » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

IggleSniggle wrote: post #126

geofft wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't lodges, churches, and golf clubs kind of the stereotypical examples of race- and class-exclusionary groups? I suppose it's not exactly a strong set of convictions if you're passively going along with broader social pressures to segregate on race and class, but if we're talking about the health of society (which I think we're implicitly doing), I think segregating on worldview is actually a whole lot healthier.

I see your point, but I think it goes the other way. Churches et al are microcosms of a geographic community, resulting in greater localized diversity of thought. And these groups can either lead or hold back a community along the lines of race- and class-exclusion. The church I grew up with was the very first institution in my life that had an openly homosexual person in a position of power (the rector, in charge of…

There are certainly exceptions but the vast majority of the largest churches in the US are very homogeneous, more so than the communities they are a part of. There are some groups, for example the Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's witnesses that seem to buck this trend but your average Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Jewish, Mormon, etc congregations tend to be very homogeneous.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#200

Post by tezzer » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 10:04 PM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #100

I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra pro…

I'm with you, 100%