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Is going to the office a broken way of working?

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Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#171

Post by ironman1478 »

taurath wrote: post #46
Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I think you're correct, but one thing that is really missing nowadays, especially with phones and the internet, is active communities that exist in real life outside of work. Stuff like the elks lodge, rotary, bowling leagues, etc are just not as common anymore as I believe they used to be. Certainly there are many things that exist, but in a way societally it seems like they don't have very much cache, even as far a…

There is a book on this topic called "bowling alone" if you are interested. These observations are ones people were making pre-covid.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#173

Post by zmmmmm »

gaoshan wrote: post #100

I genuinely miss the office. Being in a different space for work (one that was pretty gorgeous), in a nice part of downtown, able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat, more spontaneous collaboration (right before we went remote again I overheard two people discussing an area I have some expertise in and was able to interject and provide useful insight), extra pro…

I get a lot of what you say but this one drives me bonkers:

> able to tap people on the shoulder for quick questions rather than having to ping them over chat

My work requires so much focus, having people randomly tap me on the shoulder to ask a question they could just drop in chat is debilitating.

I'm curious you phrase "having to ping them over chat" negatively? I would say the same sentence almost totally in reverse:

"Now I no longer have to interrupt people to ask them a question, I can just ping them over chat for a reply when they are ready"

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#174

Post by ethbr0 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #116
geofft wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't lodges, churches, and golf clubs kind of the stereotypical examples of race- and class-exclusionary groups? I suppose it's not exactly a strong set of convictions if you're passively going along with broader social pressures to segregate on race and class, but if we're talking about the health of society (which I think we're implicitly doing), I think segregating on worldview is actually a whole lot healthier.

I don’t know much about lodges and golf clubs, but most churches are overwhelmingly of one race or another. Finding a church that reflects the broader community is quite rare, most of the community tends to self-segregate on Sunday mornings. That said, growing up churches seemed fairly class-integrated (I’m atheist now, maybe this has changed?). But growing up we had everyone from an American Football quarterback on…

Most of the larger lodges (Loyal Order of Moose, Modern Woodmen of America, Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks) were explicitly sexist (male only) and racist (white only). Although some operated female-open auxiliary organizations.

Freemasonry is interesting, in that it actually had a schism in part over exclusionary membership clauses around 1877 (Regular vs Continental). Although apparently, masonry itself forbids discussion of religion or politics during its meetings.

But much of the early lodge structure and exclusion has since been rewritten and broadened, as the majority of them were founded in the 1870s - 1910s, when prevailing social attitudes were themselves much more sexist and racist.

(Interesting, a majority were operated for the purpose of effectively providing their membership a social safety net and insurance, both of which were lacking in government terms at the time!)

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#175

Post by kaczordon »

smt88 wrote: post #114
sim_card_map wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life has always been normal here in Sweden. No lockdowns, mask mandates, restaurants have always been open. And no excess deaths. So don't speak for everyone.

> And no excess deaths. False[1][2][3][4][5]. Sweden had 7.7% higher mortality in 2020 than it averaged from 2016-2019. By comparison, Sweden's closest neighbors (geographically, demographically, and socioeconomically) had far, far lower mortality because of lockdowns, mask mandates, and closing restaurants[3][4]. > "Sweden, with a COVID-19 attributed death rate of 0.54 per 1000 population as of July 5, has a higher…

Meanwhile Belgium had around 20% excess deaths and much much stricter lockdowns. Most of Sweden’s excess deaths occurred in nursing homes, which weren’t protected enough; it had nothing to do with regular people eating at restaurants and everything to do with the protocol at those specific places. It’s quite obvious that lockdowns have dubious effects(if any) while the harms and detriment to society never seem to be measured or are dismissed flippantly as people just wanting to eat out.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#176

Post by innocentoldguy »

As someone with functional autism, I like working remotely. In my case, working in an office is indeed a broken way to work. For me, the benefits of remote work are:

1. A greater ability to focus and be as productive as possible.

2. Greater control over my schedule.

3. A much better work/life balance. I love being around my wife and kids and don't want or need social interactions with people from work outside of work hours. It is very rare (three times in my 30+ year career) that my work friendships cross over into my personal life.

4. By working remotely, I have been able to recover two hours of my life per day by not commuting.

5. I was able to get rid of one of my cars, since I don't need it for commuting to work. This saves me a ton of money in insurance, repairs, gas, maintenance, etc. It's also my small contribution to the environment.

Having been forced to work in an office for most of my career, I can empathize with people who need the type of interpersonal relationships an office provides in order to function their best. I'm sure those people are struggling with remote work the same way I struggled with being in an office.

We're all different and have different needs. I doubt a one-size-fits-all approach will ever appeal to everyone, regardless of what it is.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#177

Post by kemiller »

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

I think everyone agrees that being in the office, all things being equal, is better for collaborative work. It's just all the not-equal externalities (especially commuting and high real estate prices near good jobs) that make it suck.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#178

Post by SergeAx »

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Funny that I am a strong pro-office, but I think that maybe you miss people per se, and not particular coworkers. Also lack of environment variety, combined with inability to travel.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#179

Post by xwdv »

Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Great, so not only does work provide you with money and healthcare, it also has to provide a social circle? Pretty soon will we look toward companies to provide us with a suitable life partner too? And housing?

The point of remote work is to make your work hours very efficient so you have more time away from work to live your actual life.

Re: Is going to the office a broken way of working?

#180

Post by nsonha »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #55
Ancalagon wrote: post #8

I’m gonna go against the HN grain here and, despite having been fully for remote work for the first year or so of the pandemic, come out and say that life has really gotten a lot more repetitive and frankly disappointing since covid and the death of the office. I kind of miss meeting people in the office. I was in the unfortunate position of having moved to a new city for a new tech job where I knew nobody just seven…

Your perspective is actually very common: Working from home isn't for everyone and we should stop pretending like it's the only way to work. A lot of people dislike remote work. Many people like remote work but can't handle it for various reasons. Internet forums like HN will always overrepresent preferences for remote work because they're biased toward people who enjoy socializing over the internet. Most people don'…

it's easy to blame the mode of working to be an obstacle to employees' growth, including juniors, but it's also very likely that managers and the person themselves have not learnt or guided to optimize for this new way of work.

Collectively we should work on this first before jumping the conclusion "all juniors lose out on remote" or smt. Remote gives you a lot more freedom and telling juniors that it isnt for them is kind of gatekeeping.

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