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FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

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41–50 of 134 posts

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#41

As a lay person in this area... There are more navigation systems around: The EU Galileo, Russia's GLONASS, etc. Assuming it's unlikely that all system are down/jammed/compromised in the same area at the same time, receivers for multiple systems should be OK...? (Again lay person here)

The signals are all rather low power, in very well known frequency bands. That makes jamming them very easy militarily speaking.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s for military protection. I had a flight canceled due to GPS jamming. I think it was to protect a U2 flight. Putin also flies around with GPS jammers.

Wouldn't that mean that Putin's flights can't use GPS to navigate? But maybe he worries more about someone intercepting his plane than he does about crashing due to a navigation mistake. And his risk assessment may in fact be accurate...

Obviously we navigated acceptably, including aircraft, long before the development of GPS in the 1970s. GPS is easy and precise and can make risky edge cases (like very low altitude flight) safer or allow higher density in air spaces and such, but it's not necessary particularly not at the government aircraft level. Inertial guidance, ground based Doppler navigation systems, and even automated celestial navigation in combo can produce great results just at a much, much higher expense. That isn't an issue for the leader of a major power though.

The SR-71 was a cool example of a system that used a hybrid of automated celestial navigation and inertial. Fully self-contained.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s for military protection. I had a flight canceled due to GPS jamming. I think it was to protect a U2 flight. Putin also flies around with GPS jammers.

Wouldn't that mean that Putin's flights can't use GPS to navigate? But maybe he worries more about someone intercepting his plane than he does about crashing due to a navigation mistake. And his risk assessment may in fact be accurate...

Presumably Putin's flights, on Russian-built aircraft (specifically the Il-96), use GLONASS?

Of course, the VC-25A used as Air Force One has a cockpit station for a navigator, specifically so that it can use old-style navigation methods if access to GPS and other navigational aids is lost. Putin's modified Il-96-300PU may well also have one.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#44
post #16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it just make sense to tell them not to use GPS?

That's like saying just pretend the internet is down. The goal is to find unanticipated uses.

Also, "jamming" can include sending distorted signals. These distortions can be a spoofed or malformed packet of data. Knowing what happens when a navigation tool suddenly thinks the vehicle is on the other side of the world is important. As is, ensuring that a garbage signal won't crash it.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#45

As a lay person in this area... There are more navigation systems around: The EU Galileo, Russia's GLONASS, etc. Assuming it's unlikely that all system are down/jammed/compromised in the same area at the same time, receivers for multiple systems should be OK...? (Again lay person here)

If GPS is easy to jam, that doesn't help much. You can likely just as easily jam signals for another GNSS as they all use similar technology.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#46
post #29

It really annoys me how far into an article you have to read before it becomes clear that they're only telling one, disputed side of the story. > The US Army takes the safety of its operations extremely seriously. Calls for a cease buzzer are taken seriously and range control has not denied or ignored any cease buzzers.

I mean, the article is very clear that it's on-site management that are not allowing controllers to do their job; nowhere in the article do they suggest that the US Army doesn't take it seriously.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that mean that Putin's flights can't use GPS to navigate? But maybe he worries more about someone intercepting his plane than he does about crashing due to a navigation mistake. And his risk assessment may in fact be accurate...

You can jam 99.99% off the time except when your software takes a reading. So you get clear signal everyone else can’t.

I'm not sure that'd work very well as the primary strategy. A hot start can take 20+ seconds and the attacker has no particular advantage in time to fix when the interference stops.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#49
post #38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well keep in mind that US GPS was developed by and is owned/operated by the US military. They're just letting us use it.

The military serves the taxpayers.

That doesn't entitle them to access to military systems, either individually or as a collective. And surely citizens of other countries are not entitled to access to military systems.

Re: FAA Fumbled Its Response to a Surge in GPS Jamming

#50

> "Aircraft are greatly affected by the GPS jamming and it's not taken seriously by management," reads one report. "We've been told we can't ask to stop jamming, and to just put everyone on headings." This is the military practicing, but I would hope that civilian airline transport operations are also robust to GNSS unavailability or denial. Even private pilots in little Cessnas are taught to navigate using radio-nav…

In the examples given it sounds like ATC was doing things like directing aircraft in to restricted air space. Obviously the captain has final say and ATC’s role is officially just advisory. But this sounds like a bit more than a pilot who forgot how to navigate.
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