Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#81

Post by nkingsy » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #50

hbosch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, they offset the first 2 years of vesting with cash. So all 4 of my first years were equivalent with RSUs/Cash with the first 2 years cash heavy, and the final 2 years RSU only.

There must be a bonus that's not properly represented on levels.fyi, because Amazon's cash compensation is pretty poor compared even to some non-FAANG companies.

Off-topic, but is levels.fyi... on the level? I ask because I'm hearing about all sorts of 350k-500k offers for senior engineers, but they're not showing up there. My current salary seems right about "in band" on there, but people in my network who I talk to seem to think I'm way underpaid.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#82

Post by superflit2 » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #54

ashtonkem wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find that it makes sense if you begin imagining non-productivity reasons why execs want workers back. Sunk cost fallacy over an expensive office is a regular guess, personally I suspect that it's got to be quite a rush to see hundreds of people working at your direction in an office and remote work cannot replace that. That or bad management techniques work better in person.

It's astonishing how unified the message is, across big tech and smaller tech leaderships. It's like every CEO is reading a script from the same business magazine: "We understand how important it is for employees to return to the office and we can't wait to make this happen! We know that this is the One True Way to work, and that everyone is looking forward to it! We must get Back To Normal and the only way to do it…

They are reading the script. It is an narrative.

Mostly it is very hard politics.

Forcing tech people to live in zone X will increase voters and tax revenues to political party Z.

there is whole system to "milk" the middle class.

Rents, taxes, products, private schools, medical centers, etc.

Now with remote working suddenly some rents are getting lower in high rent places.

People are now really choosing where they want to be and whom they will socialize.

Imagine the audacity of serfs having freedom..

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#83

Post by cutenewt » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

kimbernator wrote: post #56

ripper1138 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what makes you think productivity has increased at your job? Like how are you measuring that?

I've worked at two fairly large companies during the pandemic, and both have publicly stated that their productivity has increased as a result of WFH. I've heard a variety of measures being mentioned such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues - they found people to be much easier to reach when their home offi…

I've seen a lot of data that shows hours per week have gone up, but hours isn't necessarily productivity.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#84

Post by DoreenMichele » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:53 PM UTC

sharkweek wrote: post #6

I live in Seattle and thus a notable percentage of my social circle works at Amazon. The folks I know who work there were almost entirely all prepared to quit if the company forced their initial "everyone back in the office" requirement, especially in this current job market. It feels rare to see Amazon ever make a change to such a publicly stated policy like this, I can only imagine that the groundswell of feedback…

It feels rare to see Amazon ever make a change to such a publicly stated policy like this...

Jeff Bezos recently stepped down as CEO. Google tells me that happened July 5th of this year, a few months ago.

He founded the company. It's essentially under new management for the first time ever.

I don't think you can infer much from this incident. There are too many unusual factors at play and we don't have an established track record for what the "new normal" (post Bezos) will be for Amazon.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#85

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

kreeben wrote: post #12

KallDrexx wrote: post #2

From the blog post > At this stage, we want most of our people close enough to their core team that they can easily travel to the office for a meeting within a day’s notice. We also know that many people have found the ability to work remotely from a different location for a few weeks at a time inspiring and reenergizing. We want to support this flexibility and will continue to offer those corporate employees, who ca…

>> work up to four weeks per year fully remote Wow, that's really something. Personally, having spent a pandemic working fully remote I wouldn't even consider working for a company that didn't offer that as an unquestionable human right, didn't frown upon it, didn't consider it to be "a way to refresh my sense of duty" and didn't think of it as a privilege. I'm never going back to the open landscape of hell.

I guess we can dispense with the usual idea that workers have no choice but submit to anything a company wants.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#86

Post by superflit2 » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

kimbernator wrote: post #48

cle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely in Amazon's case, they finished building multiple huge buildings in downtown Seattle right before COVID-19, which have been mostly empty since March 2020.

As much as it may frustrate them not to use the buildings, it is still strictly costing them less given the lower maintenance and utility costs.

They can rent it free to BLM and other social causes?

It is better than giving money to "something" they would be providing real stuff and places.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#87

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #50

hbosch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, they offset the first 2 years of vesting with cash. So all 4 of my first years were equivalent with RSUs/Cash with the first 2 years cash heavy, and the final 2 years RSU only.

There must be a bonus that's not properly represented on levels.fyi, because Amazon's cash compensation is pretty poor compared even to some non-FAANG companies.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#88

Post by cutenewt » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #17

taurath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really curious why only within country? Security reasons? Also why 4 weeks? Just to be available for meetings? I find it funny that this is the American version of a nice holiday - go pay money to rent an Airbnb so you can work in a different environment.

There's different tax, visa and HR regulatory implications they probably don't want to deal with. For example if Amazon has an American worker who decides to work remotely in France (where Amazon is also established) can Amazon fire the American "at will" or are they subjected to French regulations that make terminating workers extremely difficult?

Speaking of tax, allowing employees to work from home may allow them to avoid the newly created Seattle payroll tax: https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/tax/articles/city-of-s...

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#89

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

kimbernator wrote: post #56

ripper1138 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what makes you think productivity has increased at your job? Like how are you measuring that?

I've worked at two fairly large companies during the pandemic, and both have publicly stated that their productivity has increased as a result of WFH. I've heard a variety of measures being mentioned such as profitability, hours worked per week, and responsiveness of employees when they are needed outside of normal working hours for production issues - they found people to be much easier to reach when their home offi…

"Ultimately it's as we would expect: executive leadership deciding to pull people back in has little to do with data and more to do with feelings."

One of the few things the far left has been right about all along: it is not a meritocracy, it is all about perception and feelings.

Re: Amazon will allow many employees to work remotely indefinitely

#90

Post by jdavis703 » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #74

bowmessage wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another nail in the coffin for downtown Seattle's recovery?

It's not as doom and gloom as you might think. Without such a huge wealth gap between the people who work for the downtown industry and tertiary business you might get lucky and have a cultural resurgence as artists, musicians, restauranteurs, local retail, etc etc can afford to live and set up shop downtown again. People seem to forget that outside of the supermega metro areas the typical downtown/financial district…

What is stopping local restaurants and retailers from serving downtown workers? Back when I worked in a CBD, I almost always ate lunch at local/regional businesses.