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Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

economist.com

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Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#251

Post by dec0dedab0de »

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

As for sex work, in particular, this one is tricky. While I fully support body autonomy and in an ideal world, sex-for-money and the like should be legal, it's not that simple in reality. Why? Because the sex industry is deeply tied to human trafficking. I have no idea how to solve that problem.

You can't solve that problem, but I believe you could mitigate it by making prostitution legal. Funny thing is that prostitution is legal at the federal level, it's just that all the states except Nevada have laws against it. So it's kind of the opposite of cannabis, and if the credit card companies wanted to be consistent in following federal law they would allow it.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#252

Post by manquer »

programmarchy wrote: post #216
jashmenn wrote: post #214

If only there was a permissionless way to transfer value and payments across the internet without a gatekeeper

If there was, it'd only be used for Ponzi schemes and other criminal activities.

I would modify that statement without only a single gatekeeper. All countries ( ideally democratically elected) should have a say in how that system operates.

Having gatekeepers is not inherently bad, having just one who can effectively block anything is problematic.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#253

Post by webspinner »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #40
kmfrk wrote: post #31

More than ten years ago since Visa, Mastercard etc blocked access to WikiLeaks: https://wikileaks.org/Banking-Blockade.html . I guess they started blocking things The Economist care about.

Yeah, and didn't seem reluctant at all at the time.

I remember this whole thing. No one was ever reluctant! It happened pretty quickly.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#254

Post by obviouslynotme »

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

The credit card companies, like every heavily regulated industry works like the federal government without the rules holding them back. Banking is only the most powerful hammer for it's favorite nails, but has been reluctant to use it much until recently. Once they started removing the gun industry's credit card access, it has slowly creeped everywhere. I am happy because it will only be a matter of time before people move to alternatives like crypto.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#255

Post by stooliepidgin »

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> sex industry is deeply tied to human trafficking

Which career? Where? Sex workers encompasses a number of careers including escorts, prostitutes, strippers, burlesque dancers, cabaret artists, nude models, and solo and porn performers. Prostitution is already legal in most of the world, apart from the puritanical US where prohibition is seen as a panacea.

Sex work is not the problem. When human trafficking is prevented and policed sufficiently and the participants are assured to be consenting adults, there are no valid objections remaining apart from shrieks from moral panickers believing sex will bring about the rapture. Solve human trafficking by solve human trafficking, not by blaming sex work or sex workers.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#256

Post by chuckee »

White_Wolf wrote: post #36
matheusmoreira wrote: post #19

What do you mean, "are becoming"? They have always been. If the payment processors don't want to be associated with a service, they'll refuse to handle payments and then there's simply no way for the service providers to get paid. See wikileaks and other "problematic" sites. Advertisers are also regulators. I've seen sites start heavily censoring themselves because someone complained to Google and they pulled the ads…

In a world where cash is starting to dissapear, payment processors and banking in general should be regulated and treated just like some sort of utility company (Ex: Water, electricity). Advertising is a different beast altogether. Being able to to exchanges (money for goods, etc) is something quite a basic right(If I can call it that). That doesn't apply to making money though. I don't think it's normal in any way t…

> Advertising is a different beast altogether.

You are correct. Web advertising is long overdue for some trust-busting. But for some reason, antitrust law is rarely enforced.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#257

Post by rootusrootus »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #210
Swizec wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California they charge your debit card and return cash change. They even overcharge your card to ensure there is cash to give back. $5 or so. This turns it into an ATM withdrawal apparently.

And the really nice thing about this is that there are no fees. If I just need $80 or so (I think the limit is $100), it's faster to go to the local Walmart and buy a candy bar or something and get back $80 cash than to go the closest ATM owned by my bank to avoid the double dipping fees.

Our local grocery store (Fred Meyer, aka Kroger) has started charging a fee to take out extra and get cash back. Not a lot, but a bit annoying. I used to get cash that way all the time, but even for a nominal fee I just avoid that store now. I am weird, yes.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#258

Post by kevinak »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #102
kevinak wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it almost daily, don't have any issues. I run my own node though for my main "wallet". I've done transactions of up to 3k without hick-ups. Any custodial ones I have tested have worked well, though.

What do you use it for? Any benefits over paying with credit cards / cash / direct deposits?

The larger transactions have all been to transfer funds between exchanges. Very easy to transfer in and out when I want to quickly enter leveraged positions. It reduces counter-party risk for me.

For the day-to-day stuff it's obviously not as widespread as credit cards and I can't use it for much. For those situations I top up a debit card (Lastbit) using lightning.

In addition to that I spend a fair bit of money on Bitrefill. Obviously also a stop-gap until wider adoption gets here.

For someone living in a country where it's easy to send money locally and where cash isn't very common I don't think the benefits are apparent yet, for me personally. In my business I do receive a number of payments from abroad that always take at least a day to arrive and some funds are lost due to bad exchange rates. Lightning would help a lot here.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#259

Post by gamacodre »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #246
gamacodre wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bugs the crap out of me, it sounds like "waaaahhh I can't rake in ad money being a provocateur". So deal with it. Get a day job. Accept that large chunks of society will hate you (that's the goal anyway, right?) and that your business won't be welcome.

They should still have access to basic banking services, as a utility. Would you think it's okay if their water company tried to cut them off?

I was responding to a comment about making money from ads, but a similar line of thought works for banking services, I think.

Suppose that your use of the water service was creating public lashback against the water utility for "supporting" your business. A loud minority is pestering the water board members and complaining that what you're doing ought to be illegal even if it isn't strictly yet. Some are pressuring other big water users to reexamine their contracts with the utility, and someone even managed to talk a pump supplier into severing their relationship with the utility. A different minority is yelling stuff about "rights" and making trouble at board meetings.

The easiest possible thing to do in this situation is to find some vaguely plausible reason to cut your access to the public utility, and tell you that you have to truck your water in yourself from now on. Note that this kind of stuff actually happens to farmers, refineries, and other businesses.

As far as what's "right"... Damn if I know. None of this is happening in a vacuum, and these decisions end up being made by people who are accountable to and influenced by their family, friends, and community for the choices that they make. Clear laws can dilute that responsibility, but only to a point.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#260

Post by heavyset_go »

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Why? Because the sex industry is deeply tied to human trafficking. I have no idea how to solve that problem.

I mean, drug trafficking is deeply tied to human trafficking, as well, and your post concerns cannabis legalization, which is one way to combat that problem.

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