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Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

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Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#141

Post by doc_gunthrop »

simonh wrote: post #132
smoldesu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say, his phone was the one that ratted him out.

The dude booked an appointment at the Saudi Embassy in advance and walked right into it. What did his phone have to do with it?

The abductors obtained that information through his fiance's iPhone. This iPhone was infected with NSO's Pegasus malware and the infection was executed by sending a zero-click text message with automatic payload delivery. There isn't a notification when the message is received so the fiance wouldn't have known it was happening.

This zero-click iMessage exploit is unique to iPhones.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#142

Post by Mikeb85 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #92
Mikeb85 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about resources, it's about reach and jurisdiction. If anything, FAANGs have the most incentive to cooperate with the NSA because they're located in the US and have the most to lose. The companies that can best resist the NSA are located outside of the US and EU.

Apple has had high profile fights with USgov on their privacy stances. Google has not.

And yet they're cooperating with the government all the same. Literally just marketing...

With Google, you at least know what to expect. How many promises has Apple broken now?

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#144

Post by imwillofficial »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #142
imwillofficial wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has had high profile fights with USgov on their privacy stances. Google has not.

And yet they're cooperating with the government all the same. Literally just marketing... With Google, you at least know what to expect. How many promises has Apple broken now?

You mean they are doing what they are legally required to do by the government? Of course they are.

They are also working around the margins to improve privacy. Google is not.

How many promises has apple broken? #stuffyoumadeup

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#145

Post by imwillofficial »

doc_gunthrop wrote: post #141
simonh wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dude booked an appointment at the Saudi Embassy in advance and walked right into it. What did his phone have to do with it?

The abductors obtained that information through his fiance's iPhone. This iPhone was infected with NSO's Pegasus malware and the infection was executed by sending a zero-click text message with automatic payload delivery. There isn't a notification when the message is received so the fiance wouldn't have known it was happening. This zero-click iMessage exploit is unique to iPhones.

You missed my point. With an adversary that sophisticated, the actual method of compromise doesn’t matter. If he had an android the result would have been the same. Or a flip phone, or a landline, or if he lived in a cave.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#146

Post by smoldesu »

imwillofficial wrote: post #144
Mikeb85 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they're cooperating with the government all the same. Literally just marketing... With Google, you at least know what to expect. How many promises has Apple broken now?

You mean they are doing what they are legally required to do by the government? Of course they are. They are also working around the margins to improve privacy. Google is not. How many promises has apple broken? #stuffyoumadeup

> You mean they are doing what they are legally required to do by the government? Of course they are.

Well that cut-and-dries it then, I'll be sticking with Android/Linux until Apple puts up a meaningful resistance to government surveillance.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#147

Post by Mikeb85 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #144
Mikeb85 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they're cooperating with the government all the same. Literally just marketing... With Google, you at least know what to expect. How many promises has Apple broken now?

You mean they are doing what they are legally required to do by the government? Of course they are. They are also working around the margins to improve privacy. Google is not. How many promises has apple broken? #stuffyoumadeup

Have you been sleeping for the last half year? It was on the front page of HN a bunch of times.

Even this, from an Apple fanboy website: https://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/devils-advocate...

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#148

Post by doc_gunthrop »

imwillofficial wrote: post #145
doc_gunthrop wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The abductors obtained that information through his fiance's iPhone. This iPhone was infected with NSO's Pegasus malware and the infection was executed by sending a zero-click text message with automatic payload delivery. There isn't a notification when the message is received so the fiance wouldn't have known it was happening. This zero-click iMessage exploit is unique to iPhones.

You missed my point. With an adversary that sophisticated, the actual method of compromise doesn’t matter. If he had an android the result would have been the same. Or a flip phone, or a landline, or if he lived in a cave.

Your point is that the device doesn't matter. If Khashoggi and his fiance had Android devices and used an encrypted messaging app such as Signal (or something similar like Session, Briar, etc.) his abduction would not have occurred as it did (even if MBS and his cohorts had control of an operator at the telecom).

As I said, the zero-click exploit is exclusive to iPhones using iMessage. An Android device that receives a similar SMS requires the user's knowledge and willful intent in order to activate. The last zero-click SMS exploit had been patched back in 2015.

So the device (and protocol) does actually matter.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#149

Post by Razengan »

amelius wrote: post #71
bogwog wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that iPhones are secure and private is wishful thinking that benefits nobody but Apple shareholders. There are no doubt some dead journalists and activists that would still be alive today if iPhones truly were secure and/or private.

Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary proof.

How about this one objective example of Apple > Google in terms of privacy:

iCloud Mail aliases versus Gmail aliases: Google exposes your main address at all times: HeyGuysLookWhoItIs+TotallyNotMe@gmail.com

iCloud lets you have completely different aliases all forwarded to the same main account which no one else ever has to see.

AND you can see which apps have been given which aliases from one convenient list.

But of course facts like this will get buried to maintain the tired “everything sucks the same” narrative here.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#150

Post by acdha »

lrvick wrote: post #123
tomComb wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. On privacy and even moreso on security, Android can be very good or it can be terrible and the first, and perhaps most important, determinant of this is your choice of brand.

Privacy is terrible on all stock Android phones, even first party from Google. All ship with piles of binary blobs mandated by Google, SoC vendors, and carriers that have god access to your device, as well as any entities they sell that access to, and this sort of power abuse has been caught publicly many times. Apple has been caught doing similar in the past but it is much harder to regularly audit closed platforms.…

Do you have citations for any of those sweeping claims?
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