Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#201

Post by morpheuskafka » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #187

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. The dispensaries I've been to in LA will generally take credit cards now. They round it up to multiples of 5 and give you change in cash, and I think under-the-hood they're doing a cash advance or something? This doesn't detract from your point; if anything, it reinforces it. Just an interesting factual point.

If they were doing this with credit cards people would know since they'd be hit with a cash advance fee and no grace period on interest.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#202

Post by jaywalk » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:33 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #126

White_Wolf wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world where cash is starting to dissapear, payment processors and banking in general should be regulated and treated just like some sort of utility company (Ex: Water, electricity). Advertising is a different beast altogether. Being able to to exchanges (money for goods, etc) is something quite a basic right(If I can call it that). That doesn't apply to making money though. I don't think it's normal in any way t…

How credit card processing hasn't been classified and regulated as a utility is truly baffling to me. Especially with governments explicitly recommending contactless card payments instead of cash during the pandemic and many doing things like taking large bank notes out of circulation for years now. We don't need crazy things like crypto - we need decentralised and accountable banks and payment processors (not that t…

>Speaking of credit card companies: why do they exist?? Why can't my card just sign a digital request for transfer and tell the POS terminal to send it to my bank to be executed.

Because the POS terminal (or more likely, the payment processor) would have to work with thousands of individual banks. The credit card companies handle that complexity so that payment processors only have to integrate with a handful of credit card companies instead of thousands of banks.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#203

Post by michaelt » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

shartacct wrote: post #173

rootusrootus wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they are working the system and making an ATM withdrawal look like a debit from the consumer's point of view.

How does that make any sense? I put my card into the reader and it debited from my bank account. I didn't pull cash from an ATM and there was no ATM present in the business.

In my country, one can perform debit card transaction with 'cash back' - if I'm in the grocery store buying $50 of groceries with my debit card, and I also want $30 of cash, they can charge my card $80 and hand me $30 from the drawer.

This was a great boon for banks a few decades ago, as it functionally gave them a huge ATM network for free.

The debit card system understands this sort of transaction, and doesn't charge the normal x% processing fee on the cash withdrawal portion of the transaction.

In other words, retailers can create transactions that are effectively ATM withdrawals - without an ATM.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#204

Post by drak0n1c » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #35

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payment processors are doing it in response to mass outrage, particularly about revenge porn.

Really? I thought they just had rather conservative people on their board.

Probably not, as they are now blocking payments and bank accounts for some conservative sites and public figures.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#205

Post by xer0x » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

+1 the credit-card companies are surprisingly keen to be our morality police.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#206

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#207

Post by romwell » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

wutbrodo wrote: post #187

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. The dispensaries I've been to in LA will generally take credit cards now. They round it up to multiples of 5 and give you change in cash, and I think under-the-hood they're doing a cash advance or something? This doesn't detract from your point; if anything, it reinforces it. Just an interesting factual point.

They take cards, not credit cards.

Those are debit cards; the transaction is a cashback (that's why they give change in cash).

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#208

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #182

cletus wrote: post #130

I don't think they're that reluctant, honestly. But it goes beyond credit card companies too. It applies to the whole banking system. It will soon be the case where the majority of Americans live in states where recreational cannabis is legal (it was ~1 in 3 last year but NY, NJ and others will push it over). Yet you can't use a credit card to buy cannabis pretty much anywhere AFAIK. Worse, dispensaries have to opera…

> Granted, the legality of cannabis is a grey area since states allow it but the Federal government still maintains it as illegal. This isn't some incidental detail - it's the entire reason why the banking and credit card industry doesn't want to interact with cannabis right now. Guess who regulates the banking industry and has authority over interstate commerce? The federal government. This particular example has no…

The moment they’re legally allowed to they will be all over legal weed. It’s not like the finance industry has any issues profiting from other recreational substances, such as alcohol or tobacco.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#209

Post by lagadu » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

franga2000 wrote: post #144

elzbardico wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Brazilian government created an instant payment system that doesn't depend on payment processors. You can send money to anyone in seconds using their tax id number or their phone numbers, it clears in seconds. It is named PIX. All banks implemented it, so, no matter what is your bank you're able to do payments from your smartphone using your banks app. It is so popular and easy to use that even street merchants a…

Awesome! We need more countries implementing systems like that. Once that happens, an international or at least EU standard is hopefully soon to follow.

I thought this was ubiquitous in Europe already: both countries I call home (Denmark and Portugal) have each had their own for a long time now.

Re: Credit-card firms are becoming reluctant regulators of the web

#210

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #174

shartacct wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that make any sense? I put my card into the reader and it debited from my bank account. I didn't pull cash from an ATM and there was no ATM present in the business.

In California they charge your debit card and return cash change. They even overcharge your card to ensure there is cash to give back. $5 or so. This turns it into an ATM withdrawal apparently.

And the really nice thing about this is that there are no fees.

If I just need $80 or so (I think the limit is $100), it's faster to go to the local Walmart and buy a candy bar or something and get back $80 cash than to go the closest ATM owned by my bank to avoid the double dipping fees.