A new biography of John von Neumann

Post by misbyrming » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

noiseman wrote: post #126

misbyrming wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that, please see my point in my second comment above about considering a realistic scenario. Additionally, I believe that being an asshole is a negative consequence (of one's choices in life?) in and of itself. In a sense, I think it's the worse thing that can possibly happen to a person, to be an asshole.

I would contest the claim that being an asshole is something that “happens to” a person, rather than something that the person chooses to do.

I don't think that anyone ever chooses to be an asshole. I think people realise that they've been assholes, or they don't. I agree that people become assholes through things they do by choice, but I don't think anybody does something only an asshole would with the express purpose of being an asshole.

I'm naive, huh?

Post by jtsuken » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #47

sillysaurusx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I already said, I know nothing about Von Neumann's history. You'll have to fill me in before I can answer that question, since you didn't really say what happened. My criticism had a source which clearly explained what he did and why it had a negative impact. You may want to do the same thing, or I think no one will be impressed with your claim that Neumann personally was the decisive factor in killing a bunch of…

He ended up not being the decisive factor, but as the above said, he advocated for a nuclear first strike on the Soviet Union, and was already part of the nuclear decision-making process - he was invited to participate in the decision for which cities to strike in Japan but was ultimately overruled because he suggested to hit target with no military importance and high concentrations of civilians. He thought (very wr…

I think JvN deserves at least some benefit of the doubt. As far as I am aware there is little unbiased impartial information about these meetings discussing the targets for nuclear strikes.

Most information was published well after JvN has died. He also had no chance to comment even in the last years of his life. (Apparently the military was near him in hospital to make sure he didn't reveal any secrets)

e.g. JvN's recommendation to bomb Kyoto is usually supported with a quote from a book that was written by the general who ran the Manhattan project and published his account of the events five years after von Neumann's death. I wouldn't be surprised if the general was doing at least some white washing in the early sixties as the peace movement was gaining momentum.

More recently, looking at how various US agencies and departments reacted to accusations of human rights abuses in say Iraq, it's very easy to imagine that JvN's comments on the topic where either ripped out of context or exaggerated.

So again, while it's very clear how someone with an extremely scientific mindset like von Neumann's would through outrageous comments around during a brainstorming session or during a heated argument. I'd really try to withhold any judgment on this until I see the full transcripts of these meetings.

Re: A new biography of John von Neumann

Re: A new biography of John von Neumann