California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#151

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #145

giantg2 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Grow up." Responses like this violate the rules for the site and undermine HN as a place of discussion. I would love to hear a real argument. "The cost of the catalytic converter itself, plus the advanced ECU necessary to make it work properly would make gas-powered lawn mowers more expensive than an electric plus a pile of spare batteries." The ECU is a joke, and not a necessary part of using a catalytic converter.…

> Responses like this violate the rules for the site and undermine HN as a place of discussion. I would love to hear a real argument. You don't deserve a real argument. "Why not require reel mowers?" isn't a serious question. Figuring out an answer takes only a few moments of thought, or reading the first section of the law in question, wherein the legislature lays out the rationale and justification for the regulati…

Why attack me and put down my worth instead of provide an answer? You are assuming my question is a rhetorical trick, which is also against HN's policy that states you should read people's comments in a charitable way.

That's not rhetoric. It's a real question. Reel mowers don't produce emissions, don't require batteries which harm the environment, don't require electricity to be generated and transmitted, don't require copper or electronics, and they force people to get exercise. The arguments here have been that batteries are good enough for most lawns because most lawns are small. If most lawns are small, then reel mowers are a suitable replacement as well. If it was really about the environment and people's health, then they should be pushing reel mowers.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#152

Post by wtallis » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #151

wtallis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Responses like this violate the rules for the site and undermine HN as a place of discussion. I would love to hear a real argument. You don't deserve a real argument. "Why not require reel mowers?" isn't a serious question. Figuring out an answer takes only a few moments of thought, or reading the first section of the law in question, wherein the legislature lays out the rationale and justification for the regulati…

Why attack me and put down my worth instead of provide an answer? You are assuming my question is a rhetorical trick, which is also against HN's policy that states you should read people's comments in a charitable way. That's not rhetoric. It's a real question. Reel mowers don't produce emissions, don't require batteries which harm the environment, don't require electricity to be generated and transmitted, don't requ…

> That's not rhetoric. It's a real question. [...] If it was really about the environment and people's health, then they should be pushing reel mowers.

Yes, there are potential benefits to your Modest Proposal. But none of them provide any further improvement to the specific harms that the law in question explicitly seeks to reduce. Instead, you ignore those stated objectives and pretend that the law has (or should have) much broader goals, so that you can propose a much more radical alternative. And you haven't tried to explain how your proposal would be a reasonable tradeoff given its obvious and considerable downsides. You've also thrown in a bit of a straw-man ("If most lawns are small, then reel mowers are a suitable replacement as well"). I'm still not seeing a reason to take you seriously.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#153

Post by ddingus » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #3

ddingus wrote: post #2

Perhaps there can be a different fuel? Phase these things out in a reasonable way? That's a lot of gear needing to be replaced, and in many cases, replaced with far less effective equipment.

I haven’t read the law but usually these bans are announced ahead of time and are bans on purchases of new equipment. So they do result in gradual phase outs. I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too. Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.

It does. People can work through all that reasonably.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#154

Post by giantg2 » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

I'm guessing this also affects ultralight aircraft (offroad small engine). It would be nice if CA is going to pursue this if they could also make a push to increase the FAA allowed weight limit to 300lbs (equivalent of 254 lbs empty + 5 gal fuel, not counting ballistic parachute). Battery weight makes it tricky to meet the weight limit.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#155

Post by voakbasda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #144

giantg2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see that you responded with a source on behalf of the person making the claim. Although my sentiment still stands - the source doesn't support the claim. "So those sources are cleaner per gallon of fuel than a gas-powered leaf blower, and they don't exhaust quite as close to living, breathing people." Per gallon. Lawn equipment is is a tiny fraction compared to these others. Airports tend to be in cities, power…

> Although my sentiment still stands - the source doesn't support the claim. It does. If you don't believe the source, then take that up with CARB. But don't act like information provided by a government regulator is hearsay.

The California government has a track record of declaring “facts” like this to push their agenda. The fact that a government agent claimed something does not automatically make it true.