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Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

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Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#31

Post by capnrefsmmat »

sigzero wrote: post #30
capnrefsmmat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon chose to meet the publishers' terms because publishers began to withdraw books from Amazon: > Macmillan CEO John Sargent had been meeting with Amazon to discuss getting full control over e-book prices, but Amazon refused to budge and all Macmillan's books were temporarily removed from Amazon—including the print versions. Amazon eventually relented and is allowing the books back on site, and is going along with…

All of this may be true but none of it puts Apple at fault nor do I think Apple will lose this one.

Indeed; I think the lawsuit intends to prove that Apple collaborated in the publishers on forcing the new prices, but that's an allegation I've never seen evidence for.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#32

Post by jsnell »

WoundedMarlin wrote: post #27
iand wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm dubious about this analysis. You seem to be saying that prices were low when Amazon had a monopoly and prices have risen as competition entered the market. That's counterintuitive so perhaps I've missed something.

I am saying the prices where lower then they are now. When Amazon had a almost all the market share they were able to bully the publishers to the pricing they wanted. When Apple entered the market publishers stood strong and got together and got Apple to the prices on there ebook store. Amazon then was forced to raise there prices if they wanted to get the same books that Apple got. So yes as the market has grown and…

But by all accounts that spat was not about what Amazon was paying the publishers. It was about what price Amazon were allowed to sell those books at to their customers. Those are fundamentally different issues.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#33

Post by ig1 »

nirvana wrote: post #5

As as side project I helped a friend publish a small book on Amazon for the Kindle. At the time we looked into doing the iBooks Store, but it was not yet open to self publishing. Apple's requirements for pricing were as follows: 1. You could set whatever price you wanted. (e.g.: Apple doesn't fix the price at anything specific) 2. If you sell the book electronically elsewhere, you cannot sell it on iBooks Store for m…

I'm not convinced that "If you sell the book electronically elsewhere, you cannot sell it on iBooks Store for more than the price you sell elsewhere." isn't classified as price fixing. There have certainly been cases in the past where preventing a retailer from discounting a product below a certain point has been classed as price fixing.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#34

Post by ben1040 »

jannes wrote: post #4

I don't understand why they aren't selling ebooks for the same price as printed books, minus the production costs. That would be fair. Discriminating certain distribution channels might be good for profits, but I think it's clearly unethical.

If the book is unencumbered by DRM, then yes, I agree it'd be fair. Otherwise there's a certain hit to the utility of an ebook versus a printed book and the price needs to reflect that.

I can't lend it to a friend (let's face it, Amazon's current "lending" policy is just lip service). I can't print out a page or two of a cookbook so I don't have to spill sauce all over my fancy e-reader or iPad. The DRM nullifies any first sale rights I have, so I can't gift it, donate it, or trade it to the indie used book shop down the street from my house.

I personally thought that Amazon's original pricing at ten bucks a book reflected that pretty well, and allowed me a good tradeoff - I could pay $10 for the DRM restricted version, or $15-$20 for one with full rights. If I want something to read while on an airplane trip and forget about later, I'll buy the ebook. If I want a family heirloom, I'll buy the paper version.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#35

Post by GHFigs »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #28
nirvana wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the agency model forced on Amazon? Apple offered a better deal, and if I recall correctly, even before the iBooks Store had launched, Amazon changed their terms to offer the same deal. Amazon offered this same deal to everyone, including us. I'm not under a misunderstanding of what the deals are... I think you believed what you read in this press release and took it at face value. A "model" cannot include "ot…

Amazon chose to meet the publishers' terms because publishers began to withdraw books from Amazon: > Macmillan CEO John Sargent had been meeting with Amazon to discuss getting full control over e-book prices, but Amazon refused to budge and all Macmillan's books were temporarily removed from Amazon—including the print versions. Amazon eventually relented and is allowing the books back on site, and is going along with…

Macmillan didn't withdraw their books from Amazon. It was Amazon that dropped Macmillan.

Edit, for the [citation needed] crowd:

"We have expressed our strong disagreement and the seriousness of our disagreement by temporarily ceasing the sale of all Macmillan titles." -- http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/Tx2MEGQWTNGIMHV/1?_encodi...

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#37

Post by scott_s »

jannes wrote: post #4

I don't understand why they aren't selling ebooks for the same price as printed books, minus the production costs. That would be fair. Discriminating certain distribution channels might be good for profits, but I think it's clearly unethical.

What I've read from publishers is that the actual productions costs aren't that much. The fixed costs are still there, and some additional costs because now you have multiple formats.

See, http://michaelhyatt.com/why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#38

Post by scott_s »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #9
NathanKP wrote: post #3

As much as I like Apple and ebooks, it sickens me that they want to charge more than $10 for best selling ebooks. It is an electronic file. I am willing to pay more than $10 for a physical paper book I can hold in my hand, but I can't see spending more than $2-$3 for an ebook. And so I rarely buy ebooks, even though I want to, because I can't see the economics behind doing so. If ebooks are going to be just expensive…

Printing cost of a paper book is only $3-4, so even eliminating the cost of printing, ebooks would still be expensive. I suspect most of the cost of books goes to marketing and promotion, not printing and binding. http://www.millcitypress.net/book-printing-costs.aspx

That's the difficulty with books. People fee like they've paid for the physical object in their hands, when really, they've paid for all of the work that went into making that object possible.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#39

Post by fpgeek »

GHFigs wrote: post #35
capnrefsmmat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon chose to meet the publishers' terms because publishers began to withdraw books from Amazon: > Macmillan CEO John Sargent had been meeting with Amazon to discuss getting full control over e-book prices, but Amazon refused to budge and all Macmillan's books were temporarily removed from Amazon—including the print versions. Amazon eventually relented and is allowing the books back on site, and is going along with…

Macmillan didn't withdraw their books from Amazon. It was Amazon that dropped Macmillan. Edit, for the [citation needed] crowd: "We have expressed our strong disagreement and the seriousness of our disagreement by temporarily ceasing the sale of all Macmillan titles." -- http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/Tx2MEGQWTNGIMHV/1?_encodi...

Yes, Amazon protested Macmillan's eBook policy changes by the temporary Macmillan boycott. But don't forget what Amazon was protesting: Macmillan was refusing to sell eBooks to Amazon at the higher pre-Apple wholesale price that permitted Amazon to set its own price downstream.

Let me say that again. Macmillan demanded that Amazon pay them less money per eBook so that Macmillan could control the price Amazon charged the end consumer. That sounds obviously anti-competitive to me.

Re: Apple, publishers 'sued for price fixing'

#40

Post by fpgeek »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #31
sigzero wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this may be true but none of it puts Apple at fault nor do I think Apple will lose this one.

Indeed; I think the lawsuit intends to prove that Apple collaborated in the publishers on forcing the new prices, but that's an allegation I've never seen evidence for.

One piece of evidence: Steve Jobs's apparent foreknowledge that "The prices [of eBooks] will be the same."

Citation (from Jan 2010, well before Amazon agreed to the agency model): http://kindleworld.blogspot.com/2010/01/steve-jobs-pulls-his...

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