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China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

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Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#41

Post by FooBarWidget »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #36
1ris wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, no private organisation can "recognize" a state. That is a privilege for states. Private organisations can only boycott (non-)states by not doing any business with said (non-)citizens. Why in the world Wikimedia do that, and how? Second, this policy by china is the problem. Not the lack of obedience by the rest of the world.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

Back in the 70s, the KMT definitely supported the One China Principle. They were still firmly dreaming about retaking the mainland. Back then the mainland and Taiwan even regularly fired shells at each other, not to actually attack, but as a statement by both sides to foreigners that the China-Taiwan issue is an internal China matter (namely a civil war), and not one of Taiwan being an independent state.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#42

Post by toxik »

antonvs wrote: post #39
refenestrator wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be a lot less aggressive and assertive about it, but, given the stakes nd the history I think the polite fiction is perfectly fine compared to lots of alternatives.

It's better than a lot of alternatives, but it is not "perfectly fine". It's about much more than word usage for China, and they will exploit every inch given to them on this matter until they have occupied Taiwan.

If we use HK as the model for how Taiwan will be occupied, then it seems that it will be through political process. I’m not sure if the Taiwanese system is as weak as the HK setup was, but if anybody is able to find a hole, it would be the CCP.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#43

Post by dirtyid »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
dirtyid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically. PRC blocks UN participation of any organization that doesn't follow official UN interpretation of One China. As how things should be. China's UN flexes last few years doing a good job demonstrating "the world" is more than the west. Some folks have a hard time coping with pacing non-white super power that represents 20% of the global population successfully lobbying for their own interests. Conveniently lo…

> a hard time coping with pacing non-white super power One, regional power. Emerging superpower. But still lacking long-distance force projection capability. Two, share of global population doesn’t give one the right to invade and subjugate a free population. Taiwan isn’t China. It doesn’t want to be China. The world has a definite interest in protecting it.

The US is next level global hyper-power. PRC only seeks to be regional hegemony / super power, i.e. pacing power. PLAN has enough ships and replenishment fleet to project to Djibouti/ME oil without issue for years. Not enough to go toe-to-toe with USN yet, but enough for anything else. Training is just focused on securing SCS right now.

Within context post WW2 westphalia sovereignty construct PRC has right to finish civil war occuring within her domestic territory as recognized by UN. Interests of 1.4B PRC outweighs 24m on TW. If TW wants to be free, they'll have to fight for independence like everyone else. And they should, except the woeful state of TW military and doctrine suggest they're completely unserious and not up to the task.

The world has demonstrated essentially zero interest in defending TW. AUKUS wouldn't exist if US courtship to contain PRC hasn't failed with EU, NATO, G8, FVEY, QUAD etc. There's literally no one committed to defending TW among the west while most of the global south is firmly in the PRC camp. Even the US wouldn't give TW Article 5 tight security pact and no regional countries that could help are reorienting meaningfully in PRC containment except maybe Australia. No countries except the US have even floated the idea of sanctioning the PRC for taking TW. There aren't even contingency sanctions like Iran nuclear programs, that's how little interest world has in interceding. US war planning itself has pivoted from TW defense to TW armourer. Outside geopolitical theatre for headlines, it's getting more and more clear no one is interested in defending TW.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#44

Post by unethical_ban »

twofornone wrote: post #12

My only surprise is that China hasn't mentioned the rabidly biased cabal of editors that gatekeep any remotely political article and bully any "non-pc" editors off the platform. Probably because the divisiveness is useful to China's rise, and it wouldn't surprise me if they are behind some of the editing. It's kind of offensive that wikipedia still has an image of neutrality when the entrenched activist editors refus…

Your post is deceptively vague. What "perspective" (dogwhistle for opinion) do you feel Wikipedia isn't validating for you?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#45

Post by matheusmoreira »

viktorcode wrote: post #23

Nobody seems to notice that it should not matter at all how accurate exactly the information Wikimedia contains, because it has no relation to the role they can fulfil at WIPO. China blocks the application, citing irrelevant info. Then other countries dismiss those irrelevant accusations as false. It seems the future of WIPO is to become irrelevant UN body.

> It seems the future of WIPO is to become irrelevant UN body.

I certainly hope so!

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#46

Post by azernik »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #36
1ris wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, no private organisation can "recognize" a state. That is a privilege for states. Private organisations can only boycott (non-)states by not doing any business with said (non-)citizens. Why in the world Wikimedia do that, and how? Second, this policy by china is the problem. Not the lack of obedience by the rest of the world.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

The KMT absolutely did not want to give up its title of "Republic of China". It had been only 30 years since the civil war. KMT leadership was still people who had personally fled the mainland in middle age. The president at the time, Jiang Jingguo, was on the young end (he was the son and heir of Jiang Jieshi) - and even he had only arrived in Taiwan at age 39.

None of those people had strong local ties, either personal ones with the non-Mainlander population or political ones with homegrown political movements. Taiwan, for them, was at best a consolation prize, not a home.

From the US perspective, why would they go out of their way to call Taiwan its own country when neither government, on either side of the Strait, was interested in that?

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#47

Post by azernik »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #41
Ericson2314 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 0 clue why in the 1970s we didn't make it a de jure situation, like with Korea, like with Vietnam. China wanted the UN seat, right? Would they really turn that down because the US insisted on saying some shit about Taiwan? When they were kinda broke and caught between us and Soviets? Did the KMT really not want to give up "Republic of China", even if it meant being relegated to non-country status? Does it even…

Back in the 70s, the KMT definitely supported the One China Principle. They were still firmly dreaming about retaking the mainland. Back then the mainland and Taiwan even regularly fired shells at each other, not to actually attack, but as a statement by both sides to foreigners that the China-Taiwan issue is an internal China matter (namely a civil war), and not one of Taiwan being an independent state.

And it was personal for the KMT! These were people who had been middle-aged, established bureaucrats and generals in China in 1949.

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#48

Post by [deleted] »

viktorcode wrote: post #23

Nobody seems to notice that it should not matter at all how accurate exactly the information Wikimedia contains, because it has no relation to the role they can fulfil at WIPO. China blocks the application, citing irrelevant info. Then other countries dismiss those irrelevant accusations as false. It seems the future of WIPO is to become irrelevant UN body.

[deleted]

Re: China blocks Wikimedia from entering World Intellectual Property Organization

#50

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dirtyid wrote: post #43
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a hard time coping with pacing non-white super power One, regional power. Emerging superpower. But still lacking long-distance force projection capability. Two, share of global population doesn’t give one the right to invade and subjugate a free population. Taiwan isn’t China. It doesn’t want to be China. The world has a definite interest in protecting it.

The US is next level global hyper-power. PRC only seeks to be regional hegemony / super power, i.e. pacing power. PLAN has enough ships and replenishment fleet to project to Djibouti/ME oil without issue for years. Not enough to go toe-to-toe with USN yet, but enough for anything else. Training is just focused on securing SCS right now. Within context post WW2 westphalia sovereignty construct PRC has right to finish…

> as recognized by UN

Beijing flagrantly violates international law, e.g. maritime law—appealing to it is ironic. In any case, it has no rightful claim to Taiwan nor its people—any such assertion is an intentional misreading of post-WWII international law.

There is fighting will to defend Taiwan in several of China’s neighbours; Australia, yes, but also India and Japan. The U.S. policy position, that an invasion of Taiwan would merit shedding American blood, is bipartisan and strengthening. There wasn’t such consensus, in America or internationally, before Xi started being needlessly aggressive to further his personal political interests. (Australia was in the process of pivoting away from the U.S. and towards Beijing.) But he is undisciplined and so here we are.

If the Chinese population is being led to believe a Taiwan invasion wouldn’t result in significant loss of life, including on the mainland, I guess WWIII will be at least be interesting.

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