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Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

arxiv.org

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Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#21

Post by spansoa »

One thing you have to consider when debating i0S versus Android in the context of privacy is: you can have the best of both worlds and own an Android phone and an i0S device (if you can afford that, and I'm aware many citizens in third world countries don't have the luxury of owning two phones). It's like the old Chrome versus Firefox debates that happen every other month now on Hackernews & Reddit.

I own a Chromebook where I leverage the Google ecosystem and do Googley stuff all day, then a Thinkpad with Qubes+Whonix when I want privacy & security & sometimes anonymity.

You don't have to be faithful to a single company/OS/provider/whatever. You can leverage all the things and compartmentalize.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#22

Post by ForHackernews »

shawnz wrote: post #19
smoldesu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to say whatever you want, but if you genuinely believe that the NSA gives preferential treatment to anyone from FAANG you're living a fever dream.

On the other hand, who else besides FAANG has the resources to resist the NSA, at least in small ways?

The Chinese and the Russians. Who wants to buy a Yandex phone?

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#23

Post by mfer »

tyingq wrote: post #14

It seems like privacy isn't popular enough to enable a third player in the market. I wonder if "cheap" would be popular enough to make a dent. Like someone churning out de-googled AOSP phones cheap enough to attract market share.

I don’t think that it’s popularity that’s the issue. Let’s say a lot of people wanted it, where would it come from?

Invading privacy and using that pays. If your hi is to make lots of money while maximizing profit you’re going to invade privacy. If you don’t and you’re public shareholders might complain about leaving money on the table.

Then there are those who often focus on privacy tools. They often don’t end up building rolls with a user experience for the every person.

It’s complicated.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#24

Post by Mikeb85 »

shawnz wrote: post #19
smoldesu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to say whatever you want, but if you genuinely believe that the NSA gives preferential treatment to anyone from FAANG you're living a fever dream.

On the other hand, who else besides FAANG has the resources to resist the NSA, at least in small ways?

It's not about resources, it's about reach and jurisdiction. If anything, FAANGs have the most incentive to cooperate with the NSA because they're located in the US and have the most to lose.

The companies that can best resist the NSA are located outside of the US and EU.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#25

Post by mfer »

randomperson_24 wrote: post #2

I hope fanboys don't start defending Apple / Google for their privacy measures etc. (esp. Apple) Both platforms are notorious (Apple more so due to its closed nature imo) and defending any is just weird.

You have to look at what versions of the operating systems they’re looking at and compare that to today. Things change.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#26

Post by smoldesu »

shawnz wrote: post #19
smoldesu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to say whatever you want, but if you genuinely believe that the NSA gives preferential treatment to anyone from FAANG you're living a fever dream.

On the other hand, who else besides FAANG has the resources to resist the NSA, at least in small ways?

Everyone, ostensibly. The only reason why they care about those companies is because they process an insane amount of data on a regular basis, so they will always go for the cheap wins first. I doubt it took any effort to convince Apple and Google to comply, since the alternative would be losing money (not an option to shareholders). Amazon was already under the NSA's thumb the moment they started working with domestic payment processors, and at this point the general public probably knows more sensitive info about Facebook than the NSA does. We could keep going down the Fortune 500 in such a manner, flagging people who process lots of data and determining what actual mitigation they put in place, but you'll quickly realize that they have all the information they need.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#27

Post by nom »

rasengan wrote: post #13
kadoban wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they can, the paper just did. Security (which privacy is one subset of) is not binary. Just because it can never be perfect does not mean that it's all equal.

Privacy is absolutely binary and taking a hardline approach is absolutely the proper way to protect your privacy. You either actively choose to share information (1) or you don’t (0). The article compares who is sharing what to who — sharing info is sharing, period. A smartphone with all the bells and whistles in 2021 is not private. I stand by my statement, hardline.

I respect your hardline approach but for most people it's a rather soft thing. I want to be able to choose WHO i share my information with and under what conditions.

You can argue that once information is shared it's up for grabs by anyone but i argue that this is simply not true, it just feels like that it is.

We could do so much better and we should never forget that.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#28

Post by zsmi »

I think this study is quite good but it does come with one important caveat:

From page 5, "This is before the introduction of Apple's new opt-in mechanism for tracking in 2021. Our dataset therefore reflects privacy in the app ecosystem shortly before this policy change."

Personally, I would prefer to see the difference between apps monetized by customers paying directly and apps monetized by advertising. I take for granted advertiser will track, and I assume paid apps track less but I wonder if that's actually true in practice. It very well might not be.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#29

Post by Jeaye »

It's tough to diff the privacy between Android and iOS, as an OS.

However, as an app ecosystem, it's not tough at all. For example, there is not a single open source email app on iOS which supports GPG email. In the iOS app ecosystem, privacy and FLOSS is an afterthought, since iOS users are more likely to pay for proprietary software. On Android, there are a lot more options, including things like F-Droid which are full of FLOSS apps which are graded based on their patterns and anti-patterns.

Re: Are iPhones Better for Privacy? Comparative Study of iOS and Android Apps

#30

Post by sofixa »

tyingq wrote: post #14

It seems like privacy isn't popular enough to enable a third player in the market. I wonder if "cheap" would be popular enough to make a dent. Like someone churning out de-googled AOSP phones cheap enough to attract market share.

The cheaper you go, the more the manufacturer needs to add crap and tracking and ads to make up the margins ( e.g. that's what Xiaomi do).
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