California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#71

Post by Ekaros » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #36

chenster wrote: post #11

Totally second this but on a different ground. It's simply the noise it makes. Many people have been left trapped at home, working remotely as a result of Covid. A noisy machine, such as a gas-powered leaf blower, can disrupt a peaceful neighborhood day. Imagine your neighbor to your left mowing the lawn at 8 a.m., then neighbor to your right at 9 a.m., then another cross the street started at 10 a.m., and on and on.…

Addendum: also need to ban children playing outside. They make so much damned noise.

And maybe drugs too. The drugged up people during weekends are massive nuisance in cities, yelling and being violent at streets. Really we should close down all bars and bring back prohibition...

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#72

Post by dabbledash » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #58

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

Currently they bring their own fuel to worksites. What happens when there's no outlet for them to plug into? There are large numbers of landscaping scenarios where this will be the case. Do they bring a diesel generator? All of my yard tools, including my lawnmower, are electric. For reasons of both cost and power, I went with corded rather than battery powered. Battery tech is constantly improving and maybe at some…

“Currently they bring their own fuel to worksites. What happens when there's no outlet for them to plug into?”

Gas powered electric generators

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#73

Post by LatinAmerican » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

Your source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

Power conversion inefficiency, distribution matrix maintenance, demand pressure on local energy price, adding toxic batteries and more complex machines to the system, not accounted for.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#74

Post by navmed » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

ansible wrote: post #61

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is we shouldn’t be dumping air quality externalities on everyone to have attractive landscaping. Everyone is collectively used to burning fossil fuels without paying the true cost, and wrings their hands when they have to pay for their use case with zero emissions technology. The value of clean air is proven from scientific research on emissions. https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/air-polluti…

We (our entire society) should really be reconsidering lawns and "attractive lawns" in general. The care and maintenance of Kentucky bluegrass is a tremendous drain on resources, a significant cause of pollution (air and water), and destroys the habitats of native plants, insects and animals. It is just bad all around.

This, this, this. It's ridiculous that we emulate British royalty who started this trend to show how rich they were by not needing useful crop.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#75

Post by Ekaros » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #56

atonse wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t read the law but usually these bans are announced ahead of time and are bans on purchases of new equipment. So they do result in gradual phase outs. I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too. Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.

What is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?

Ethanol? Actually probably isn't even that much more expensive to run. I think reasonably we could already find suitable alternative and then somehow brand it zero emission or net zero...

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#76

Post by bob1029 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

This only applies to sales of new equipment starting in 2024. Existing equipment isn't banned. Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go. The combination of multi-battery chargers and veh…

> means the batteries can even be charged straight off of the truck

Get a bunch of long extensions cords on those crank reels and put em in the back of the truck. Batteries are a huge waste of money/time/environment if a corded tool will do the job. You would probably still keep a few cordless on the work truck just in case you need to get to some place far away or high up (e.g. the chainsaw example).

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#77

Post by LatinAmerican » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #56

atonse wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t read the law but usually these bans are announced ahead of time and are bans on purchases of new equipment. So they do result in gradual phase outs. I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too. Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.

What is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?

The definition was shaped to promote Tesla battery car purchases.

Until recently, Tesla had its HQ in California, I asume the deals with local politicians still stand.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#78

Post by heypete » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

While I can get on board with restricting 2-stroke engines in most cases (there’s still many situations where there’s no viable substitutes), I’m puzzled how they expect to have gas-powered generators be zero emission. That seems to defy the laws of physics and chemistry.

By definition, people use generators when there’s no source of mains power, whether that’s during a power outage or needing to use electric devices in a remote area, job site, etc. I don’t see how requiring such things to work on battery power (from where would they charge their batteries?) would be viable in any way.

That said, I wish they’d consider the use of alternative fuels (like propane), particularly for things like generators and larger equipment like riding mowers. Most 4-stroke engines can easily run on propane and dual-fuel devices like generators are already commonly available. Propane burns very cleanly, efficiently, is inexpensive, widely available, easy to store, and doesn’t go stale like gasoline.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#79

Post by LatinAmerican » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #75

bombcar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?

Ethanol? Actually probably isn't even that much more expensive to run. I think reasonably we could already find suitable alternative and then somehow brand it zero emission or net zero...

Ethanol is an hydrocarbon that has to be burned into CO2. Chemical reaction wise difference is, as an alcohol, it produces water as a residue, too.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#80

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #75

bombcar wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?

Ethanol? Actually probably isn't even that much more expensive to run. I think reasonably we could already find suitable alternative and then somehow brand it zero emission or net zero...

I love how they decide when and where “carbon” is an emission or not …