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Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

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Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#51
post #24

Three degrees. That could mean he's industrious, curious and driven. Or it could mean he had money enough to delay entry into doing something meaningful in life, and too little drive to do anything but. I know both kinds. Would anyone hazard a guess about which group has a better employment outlook? I don't mean to belittle the very real problems in both the job market and our education system. I do mean to quibble w…

Having managed (paid) interns and full time employees picked right out of graduation (I'm in a somewhat experimental role and that means the only staff I'm going to get is junior level), I can't possibly restate the importance of not delaying entry into doing something meaningful in life, if I take your meaningful to mean advancing your experience in your desired field.

The best employee I've ever had wasn't a Computer Science or MIS major (I believe he switched later). It was an accident that I even got his resume (coincidentally, a staffing intern at my company mixed it up. It was due for the bin [HR and staffing are for another rant, I'll leave it alone this time]). He was a brilliant guy. He interned for the half of the summer. In a few weeks he went from zero experience with databases and directX, to developing a solution using both technologies (he wasn't a magician, the end-product was good, but required some reworking of code due to his applying knowledge from one language to another, but it was done, usable and with a bit of work supportable). We offered him a full time position on the spot and he declined (he wanted to be in academia at the time, but ended up in industry a few years later).

Degrees are important. Experience is important. Intelligence is important, but being intelligent and having degrees doesn't equate to success or the deserving of success. I used to work with a guy who was the sort of guy you wanted to go out to lunch with (if you're a geek). Very intelligent, had all sorts of ideas, could talk about anything related to his field (networking) and would challenge you to think about things differently. Unfortunately, he could talk all around theory, but he couldn't execute. It was a strange sort of inability to choose between several equally good approaches to solving a problem. Every project he worked on got about 3/4 to completion and then fell flat into failure.

And of course, the story of my two coworkers is certainly not a rigorous statistical understanding of the world. It's my observation mixed with bias. But it's worked so far in finding good, terribly unqualified individuals that can produce far more than they take away from me in time-spend.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. He's 55 yrs old and has been out of work for sometime. At that age no one expects to train you so you have to have had a great track record, be practically a guru and be bringing something to the company to get hired over a recent graduate. His race might play a part in potential employers being doubtful that he has those skills (probably a bit understandable given the number of black acoustical engineers) or n…

I don't really understand this comment. Why would it be understandable that some employers would not believe that he is a capable black acoustical engineer? And even if they did, wouldn't it take maybe 5 minutes worth of correspondence to figure out if he was or was not? Unless you are saying there is rampant racism in the acoustical engineering industry to the point that he would not even advance to a correspondence…

Unfortunately, I've seen it, with myself in computer programming and systems administration. Not the only field where this crops up; fortunately, we're beginning to have good counterexamples of what black Americans are supposed to be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPf03T8YN-4

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's what I don't get. Everyone says "hey, all these unemployed could work at McDonald's". The last time they had that massive hiring event millions showed up to fill 50000 positions. No one wants to admit that nearly every business except tech is sitting on cash and just working their existing employees to the bone because they can (and because it's more profitable). The real hiring is overseas, as it should…

If you are able bodied and hard working, you can almost always find jobs in construction or demo (one or the other is almost certain to be doing well in any particular economic situation). These are not good jobs, but they are jobs . At the very least it is generally quite easy to get under the table work with these sorts of gigs. If you are able bodied, hard working, and reasonably bright, then contact local apprent…

It is probably one of those "your results may vary" things.

I know people with the opposite experiences. I know people who are just gutting, cleaning, sledgehammering and etc that are constantly looking for more work, taking it where they can find it, and living paycheck to paycheck. There is a work drought. We're talking people without high school educations who have worked jobs like this for years but have been having a harder time now than ever.

On a higher level, I also happen to know the owners of a construction firm. They make solid money (don't know how much for sure but over $150K/yr) who have complained about how they are dipping into savings, investing more than ever in advertising, and still having problems finding projects to do.

I think there is reason to be suspect about the guy in this article, but that doesn't mean times aren't really tough all over.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect there is more to the story, and I would like to point out that he was unemployed from 1993 to 2007, which is a period that included an immense economic boom. I don't see how the current tottering state of the economy explains his inability to find any employment at all from 1993 to 1999, which was as good a time for an engineer to be hired as I can imagine. I was there in that job market, and there was…

He spent ten years liquidating all of his assets and caring for his aging parents until they passed on. I don't know that it explains the entire employment gap but it seems reasonable that he would be a tough sell for many companies: older, and despite the good education and prior employment history, his skills are bound to be rusty. He was deliberately not working during that period.

He was only 33 years old in 1990. According to his story, he already had 8 years of experience as a senior engineer at Lockheed, plus two masters degrees in Physics and EE, and more than a decade of computer programming experience, and connections all over the aerospace industry. If he made a choice to not work for the next 18 years, while becoming indigent and sliding into homelessness, that's not something to be solved by the American economy. And he is not the first man with ailing parents, you know.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have something against folks who double major in their bachelor's then?

In cases where they complement each other, no. Now if they were earned at different times, perhaps even different universities, and don't seem to complement each other, I agree that I find something off about it. An exception to this (this is a very loose sense of "off", there are many factors going into it) could be someone who's first degree is a liberal arts degree and their second is something more useful for get…

Why does it come across as "off" to you? Whatever interest people have change all the time, or the field they initially entered isn't what they thought it was. I also don't see why you think liberal arts to a more "useful" degree is the only legit path.

I've seen all types of changes and there is no reason a person should be stuck in a path they are not happy with just because they picked a different major when they were in college. Some ex: Comp Sci to med school, Neurosci Phd dropout who works in animation, chemical engineer who decided to get a MFA, there are countless examples.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#56

I didn't quite understand the story - he liquidated all his assets to buy his parent's home then moved in with them to take care of them. It sounded like he bought the house altogether. If so, why homeless? Could he not pay the taxes? In any event, while his sentiments were laudable, I'm reminded of a Dave Ramsey saying - "you can't help someone from a position of weakness". I think it was DR, anyway. In other words,…

As crappy as that might have been what would have happened had his mom still been alive?

You are completely right when you're in the position to think rationally. My only thought is that ... it's his Mom. I'm a married man with a few kids and am the sole income provider for my family (by choice not circumstance). I would move heaven and earth to ensure my family (my bride and children) were taken care of. Were I single, I'd live on the street if it meant the difference between my mom being tossed out of her home or me being able to prevent that.

It's completely irrational behavior from a Dave Ramsey standpoint (I'm a fan of his), and I know that elderly care isn't a choice between "stay in your home" and "suffer/die in an alley with dementia", but it's difficult to make sound decisions when dealing with such a serious emotional circumstances. (case in point, I don't even know the meaning of living on the street, but I know what decision I'd make regardless).

There's a bit of hindsight at play here. When I decided to move out, my dad did everything he could to convince me to buy a house rather than rent (throwing your money away! Tax deductions!). From a cash flow perspective, it didn't make sense. I had no savings and would have had to game the system via several different types of loans, but from the conventional wisdom of the time, it was: your house will never decline in value. I rented and I'm glad I did. I'm now a homeowner with a simple 15 year fixed that's nearly paid off.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#57
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geez. I know America is nowhere close to being a socialist country, but one cannot be so oblivious to the fact that something here is rotten from the foundation. Have we lost all solidarity? Hell, even basic decency? Yes, maybe this specific person is not a good example. Maybe he has suffered mental health issues or substance abuse (though I find the accusation appalling). Maybe he does suffer a severe lack of skills…

Maybe he has suffered mental health issues or substance abuse Given the severe lack of social services in the US for mental health or addiction, I wouldn't fault him for either of those.

I think my post was taken the wrong way.

I took the article to say "look at this person, he can't find a job for 14 years, despite all these amazing qualifications".

I have a suspicion that there is more to the story, because I find it implausible that a hardworking competent person would could go that long without finding any work. Add to that the description of him as 'homeless and living at a shelter'. So he can't even find work that he is overqualified for? An office 'tech guy' will get somewhere around $50k in Boston, to install printers and do basic desktop support. People just out of highschool get that job all the time.

So, how did he end up homeless? There is obviously much more to the story that the article completely omits. And that is my criticism, it's misleading to only mention all his good points and use his story as a vehicle to indict our whole economic system.

I don't feel avarice for this gentleman, but I don't feel appalled that he can't find a job, because I believe the story is making several lies of omission.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#58
post #5
post #2

A quick look at his linkedin profile shows a 17 year gap in his work history and a very vague sense of what skills he has, I imagine that's what giving him problems.

That's possible. I wonder what the reason is, or if this Youtube thing isn't telling the whole story.

Most of the time with sensational stories you only get the 'shock' side of the story. Like forgetting last years case Ted Williams (radio voice guy) was a drunk and drug abuser.

Or untold police brutality stories which neglect the office point of view. Not that I condone police beating the crap out of people, but I understand every one has a breaking limit, and often after watching those videos I think I wouldn't have lasted half as long as the cops did. But a cop having to face 3 abusive people in an uphill struggle to do his job... until he pulls out a baton and pacifies one or two ... is no where near a great story as a abusing his power.

Lots of homeless people have mental defects that can be hard to see at first. I wouldn't mind betting there maybe something else as well. Even something as simple as depression.

I suspect he has these going against him. Age , weight, race, long term unemployed, homeless, new city, industry knowledge which he probably hasn't kept unto date on, and drive... lets face it younger people have more drive to be prove themselves than older people.

Pretty hard to top of the pile when lots of other applicants wouldn't have that.

I'd say the best thing for him would be teaching, seems he has a warmth about him, proven kindness (with parents), seems intelligent enough, and as long as theres no mental defects. One year in a local community college and he'd be set. No doubt there will be an online effort to help this man out. And I'd chuck him a dollar to be a teacher.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#59

He has a Masters in Electrical Engineering and Acoustics from Purdue University (a very good acoustics school) and he can't find a job in the Boston area (home of a dozen or so acoustical consulting companies, another dozen or so loudspeaker manufacturing companies including Bose, Boston Acoustics & Loud Technologies), several active audio & acoustical engineering associations (including Bosotn chapters of the ASA, A…

Well. He's 55 yrs old and has been out of work for sometime. At that age no one expects to train you so you have to have had a great track record, be practically a guru and be bringing something to the company to get hired over a recent graduate. His race might play a part in potential employers being doubtful that he has those skills (probably a bit understandable given the number of black acoustical engineers) or n…

* Well. He's 55 yrs old *

He's 55 years old now. He was 33 in 1990, when he stopped working (according to him). The idea that an electrical engineer and physicist with tons of programming experience to boot, and with references from Lockheed as a Senior Research Engineer, could not get a job from 1990 to 2007, is just not plausible, even if he took a lot of time off to care for his parents. The story is not reasonable, and there are parts of it we're not hearing and parts that have been distorted (I doubt he really got to Dartmouth at age 16).

People pass this along as two things: a) a sad personal story, and b) a commentary on the sad state of the country. The fact is that it fails as both. As a personal story, it is implausible and clearly incomplete. I feel like I am being pulled around by the nose. I feel like I am hearing only one source, and that source is less than totally truthful. The real story is probably still sad, but it's probably different and less pithy. Right now, I just feel like I am being manipulated.

And it clearly has nothing to do with the state of America in 2011, since this man's problems existed decades before, and in an excellent economy.

Re: Homeless Man Has Three Degrees and Can't Find a Job

#60

He has a Masters in Electrical Engineering and Acoustics from Purdue University (a very good acoustics school) and he can't find a job in the Boston area (home of a dozen or so acoustical consulting companies, another dozen or so loudspeaker manufacturing companies including Bose, Boston Acoustics & Loud Technologies), several active audio & acoustical engineering associations (including Bosotn chapters of the ASA, A…

I made a feature-length documentary about four homeless people including one with a master's degree in psychology.

http://graceofgodmovie.com/

In his case there definitely turned out to be more to the story.

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