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Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

latimes.com

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Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#141

Post by jjeaff »

RattleyCooper wrote: post #137
blitzar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds a bit like the 3 foot wide concrete pillar that came out of nowhere and scratched half way down the passenger side of the car recently.

You can blame the driver but if tesla calls their systems "auto-pilot" or "full self-driving" mode then they're creating expectations in people's minds that they aren't going to be kamikaze'd into a concrete wall... When they create these expectations and then people die, something needs to change.

Even if they didn't call it that, anything that allows drivers to redirect their attention seems dangerous to me. Because it is always going to be hard for a disengaged driver to regain control and evade an accident in the last second.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#142

Post by ajross »

emn13 wrote: post #118
ajross wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because it's enough that it exists as an existence proof refuting the hypothesis. The burden is on people contending that e.g. AP can't stop for emergency vehicles (or the related point in the linked article that emergency braking doesn't work) to show that it is unsafe. That analysis doesn't hold for obvious interpretations of the data we have. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it means you need to come to the table…

If you're merely questioning whether Tesla's really do crash into emergency vehicles more often that would be expected, I get it. But "Tesla's on AP get in these crashes about half as much as vehicles in the general fleet" is unsupported; even in Tesla's own figures from https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport the difference between AP and non-AP Tesla's isn't large enough (for me anyhow) to actually draw any concl…

> the difference between AP and non-AP Tesla's isn't large enough (for me anyhow) to actually draw any conclusions from

Fine. But then why do you feel so certain about a data set of 13 points over three years? The point under discussion is a contention that AP is less safe because the autobraking doesn't work with emergency vehicles.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#143

Post by emn13 »

ajross wrote: post #142
emn13 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're merely questioning whether Tesla's really do crash into emergency vehicles more often that would be expected, I get it. But "Tesla's on AP get in these crashes about half as much as vehicles in the general fleet" is unsupported; even in Tesla's own figures from https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport the difference between AP and non-AP Tesla's isn't large enough (for me anyhow) to actually draw any concl…

> the difference between AP and non-AP Tesla's isn't large enough (for me anyhow) to actually draw any conclusions from Fine. But then why do you feel so certain about a data set of 13 points over three years? The point under discussion is a contention that AP is less safe because the autobraking doesn't work with emergency vehicles.

I'm not sure what you're talking about? Which 13 points? Maybe you're confusing me with a different poster? Anyhow, my objection is to the positive assertion that the AP is safer based on published data. And even there - I can understand the positive interpretation at first glance; I just don't share it. As to the formal investigation - there aren't any conclusions yet, so no news there.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#144

Post by resoluteteeth »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #138
raxxorrax wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any info as to why? Simply because it is redundant or is there a technical problem with it?

IIRC there's concern of crosstalk as it becomes more common. So relying on it in a radar-noisy environment would be risky.

Or they just don't want to maintain two different versions of their software for cars with and without it.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#145

Post by resoluteteeth »

TedShiller wrote: post #108

This is the fundamental problem with artificial "intelligence" driving: It works fantastic 99.9999% of the time. But the 0.0001% of the time when doesn't work will kill you.

There's no way it's anywhere close to 99.9999% right now.

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#146

Post by TedShiller »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #145
TedShiller wrote: post #108

This is the fundamental problem with artificial "intelligence" driving: It works fantastic 99.9999% of the time. But the 0.0001% of the time when doesn't work will kill you.

There's no way it's anywhere close to 99.9999% right now.

You're right

Re: Why didn’t auto-braking stop these crashes?

#147

Post by kbos87 »

fingerlocks wrote: post #116
kbos87 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automatic Emergency Braking is amazing and it never gets talked about. I’ve logged 40k miles in my 2019 Subaru with Eyesight and it very reliably notices dangerous situations. Other vehicles hard stopping in front of me is the most common occurrence, and it always hits that sweet spot of me being glad it alerted me so I could brake before it had to. I’ve had one instance where it went straight to braking - I took a r…

> Other vehicles hard stopping in front of me is the most common occurrence Wow, is mine defective? I have the same vehicle. My most common occurrence is backing out of my steep driveway at faster than 1 mph. We made a habit of disabling it as soon as we start the engine. The second most common occurrence is driving past the narrow neighborhood roundabouts everywhere in Seattle.

It’s worth mentioning that I’m only talking about Eyesight while driving forward. The rear ARB is radar controlled and very sensitive. I’d never say it’s false alarmed, but it’s very, very sensitive. It may be a matter of preference to some extent. At low speed in reverse I appreciate the added layer of caution.
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