Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#21

Post by chroem- » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #7

roenxi wrote: post #4

We might look at these stats and think that they demonstrate a safe and effective vaccine. But there is still a very real risk that won't stop the government of Canada implementing a full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is, when and sets up all the necessary infrastructure to block someone's ability to travel.

This is a bizarre comment. What does the efficacy of Canada's improvised mixed vaccination "plan" have to do with implementing a dictatorship? And have you noticed how big and poorly connected rural Canada is? It's pretty easy to get out of range of cell towers and effectively not be trackable. How is the Canadian government going to cover the country with enough infrastructure to monitor where every citizen is in a…

I'm not clear on what GP's connection to vaccinations is, but for what it's worth, Australia has recently implemented some very authoritarian covid policies despite it being sparsely populated. People are only allowed to leave their homes for two hours a day and everyone is required to take pictures of themselves inside their homes at regular intervals to prove their location to the police. Violators are being shot with rubber bullets, and yet despite the severity of these measures, the total number of deaths in each state can be counted on your fingers.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#22

Post by jeromegv » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:08 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #13

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

You are revisioning history. Contracts were with companies. Not governments. Canada didn’t order US vaccines. It ordered Pfizer, Moderna, Etc. They were free to ship from wherever they wanted as long as national governments allowed it. Yes once Biden authorized it it accelerated shipment. But there was no gamble, Canada never ordered from US government.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#23

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:11 AM UTC

defaultname wrote: post #6

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

"Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines" Canada was one of the first countries to pre-order vaccines, signing massive agreements with just about every candidate maker. I'm aware of literally a single deal happening with another country prior to Canada's orders. What thwarted Canada's efforts was that the US defacto nationalized the medical establishment in that country, while Cana…

Canada signed the most deals but are you aware that Canada had delivery dates months scheduled for months later in the contracts which is why Canada had no recourse but to wait. Just to keep face 250k dose were flown in before the year but the contracts expected some delivery by March but most by summer.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#24

Post by rubyist5eva » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:11 AM UTC

Paid off in what exactly? Many of our provincial governments have implemented totalitarian measures despite an insanely high vaccination rate and low death rate - creating a medically segregated society.

In one province, the government has given itself vast power to perform warrantless search, confiscate property and conscript any person to the cause of "managing the emergency". Our courts uphold the measures because of the 'unprecedence' of a global pandemic of a disease with a median survival rate of 99.8% where the VAST majority of deaths are in people over 60 and in many places we have vaccination rates higher than 95% in that demographic.

The federal government is about to implement a no-fly or rail policy for unvaccinated people - whether you are a citizen or not. If you're a foreign national from overseas you better get out while you still can - the Berlin Wall is going up.

CBC is the state funded broadcaster, take everything they write with a grain of salt, like you would with RT for example.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#25

Post by jeromegv » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:15 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #23

defaultname wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines" Canada was one of the first countries to pre-order vaccines, signing massive agreements with just about every candidate maker. I'm aware of literally a single deal happening with another country prior to Canada's orders. What thwarted Canada's efforts was that the US defacto nationalized the medical establishment in that country, while Cana…

Canada signed the most deals but are you aware that Canada had delivery dates months scheduled for months later in the contracts which is why Canada had no recourse but to wait. Just to keep face 250k dose were flown in before the year but the contracts expected some delivery by March but most by summer.

And what is your point? The only countries that had a large amount of doses in the first few months of 2021 were the countries producing the vaccine. There was no way that the US would produce for export before vaccinating their own population.

Canada had no local production. There was literally nothing they could do but wait. Its of course a problem not to have local production. But it’s not a lack of orders that was the issue, everything was ordered early in 2020, there was just no doses available.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#26

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:15 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #13

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

Canada placed their bets with the Chinese who Canada gave money to for research but then refused to provide research and excluded Canada going forward.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#27

Post by jltsiren » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #3

“Bold” strategy? Canada had no option if they wanted to vaccinate quickly. Unlike the US and Europe, Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. Once it was apparent they couldn’t control the case numbers without vaccines, they took what they could get, prioritized first doses then realized they had different vaccines delivered for 2nd doses. The fact the mixed vaccines gives good protection is more luck than…

As far as I understand, the choice was an informed guess based on theoretical understanding of how vaccines work.

For most vaccines, the time between doses is measured in months, not weeks. Those vaccines were tested slowly over years, and the tests focused on finding the most effective timing between doses. Covid-19 vaccines were developed in a hurry, and the priority was getting them approved as quickly as reasonably possible. Testing therefore focused on the shortest time between doses that was expected to produce good enough results. Even if longer spacing was expected to be more effective, testing it would have delayed the approval by months.

Mixing vaccines also makes theoretical sense. Exposing the immune system to a more diverse range of threats may provide a more robust response when the virus mutates. Testing mixed vaccines is just more difficult in practice, because each company develops and tests its vaccines independently.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#28

Post by ipaddr » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:17 AM UTC

yelnatz wrote: post #16

I have mixed vaccinations since I'm in BC. Hopefully I get a third booster shot so I can be considered fully vaccinated in the states.

By that point you will need three same dose vaccinations to be fully vacced.

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#29

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #15

klyrs wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...full China-style surveillance system tracking system that monitor where every citizen is... Got any sources indicating that this is in the works?

They're setting up restrictions on public (and private) transport [0]. Work is being done to support using OHS as a lever to push vaccination [1] which is going to require centralised databases integrated into business processes. Toronto is setting up systems to verify that everyone is vaccinated at gatherings of 1,000+ people [2]. This is setting the infrastructure to implement a social credit system. It is a small…

[deleted]

Re: Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching Covid-19 vaccines paid off

#30

Post by defaultname » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 6:22 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #26

sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Canada dragged its heels on pre-ordering vaccines. No. Canada made some bad bets on where they would be getting vaccine. Canada assumed that a particular person would still be in the white house and that early US vaccines would not be available for export. So Canada threw in largely with European suppliers. That gamble was wrong. The certain person lost and US vaccination rates were lower then expected. US vaccine…

Canada placed their bets with the Chinese who Canada gave money to for research but then refused to provide research and excluded Canada going forward.

A traditional vaccine candidate was happening between a tiny Canadian group and a Chinese group. It didn't pan out.

At the same time Canada had placed orders for literally hundreds of millions of vaccines from the major pharmas, doing so before almost anyone (your claim about shipment dates is just as factually deficient, as an aside).

Canada was ill prepared for a pandemic because it relied upon free trade and allowed for the hollowing out of medical manufacturing. Hopefully a lesson has been learned.