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America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

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Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#51
post #36
post #12

An otherwise insightful (but somewhat crass) comment seems to have been immediately [dead] upon being posted, but I think they might be on to something. Readers: I hope you don't mind me momentarily intervening in the voting process, but I will post the comment below for others who may not have show-dead turned on to see. EDIT: Even more curious, the majority of this accounts otherwise normal posts seem to be [dead]…

It's a valid take. Not one I necessarily agree with, but one that deserves exploration. IMO we are facing costs and painful trade offs: * Many insisted that the "moral" course of action was shutting the economy down during Covid to minimize deaths. Well, OK, there is a price for that in terms of destroying businesses and livelihoods, of loneliness and isolation. A lot of people are now stressed out, out of work - and…

In many western countries we didn't actually shut the economy down - we left large portions of it still running and exposed all those people to covid without appropriate care (naturally many of them caught it), so at best we turned a large initial spike into a long, ongoing misery of deaths that continues until this day. Part of that is because politicians and business leaders were unwilling to stomach the difficulty of doing a proper shutdown. The outcome we got instead has all of the downsides you describe but I don't think it's correct to describe it as "shutting the economy down", at best it was a half-measure that perhaps was worse than either of the two real options.

If large countries like the US had done a proper shutdown, the Delta variant might not be spreading around right now claiming huge numbers of lives. For example, if you want to avoid having covid cripple your economy, one useful measure would be to ensure your front-line workers (food service, caregivers, etc) have protected leave so they can recuperate at home if they get covid or go get vaccinated, then return to work full-time. Instead the US tells everyone to suck it up and come to work while they're miserable and infectious. Is it any surprise our death count is enormous and the economy is in tatters?

Rental prices were already a nightmare before the pandemic, if anything rental prices tanked for a while in some areas during it. I don't think the eviction suspension is connected to that - it had bad impacts but I don't know that you can convincingly argue that one of those impacts was price.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#52
post #42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a valid take. Not one I necessarily agree with, but one that deserves exploration. IMO we are facing costs and painful trade offs: * Many insisted that the "moral" course of action was shutting the economy down during Covid to minimize deaths. Well, OK, there is a price for that in terms of destroying businesses and livelihoods, of loneliness and isolation. A lot of people are now stressed out, out of work - and…

>The biggest problems that we face in our economy are problems we ourselves create in trying to approach the economy as a pez-dispenser of fairness rather than as an engine of economic growth that follows emergent technical, rather than ethical, laws. That is the most silk glove way of saying "humans should serve the economy not the other way around". Which to be honest is no world I want to live in.

I expect the person you're responding to was describing how the economy works, not moralizing how he wishes it worked - which is what you're doing.

You may be familiar with the metaphor of growing and dividing the pie. The hard thing is to make the pie large. It's much easier to divide the pie. If the pie is huge, even an 'unequal' distribution of pieces is an improvement over no pie.

When people obsess about dividing the pie equally, they always ignore how the pie is grown in the first place. This is what happened to us in the USSR - we were all equal but nobody had anything.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#53

Lets break it down who is missing from employment. - Almost million died due to Covid. - A lot of olders or those who can retire, left the workforce - Some took flexible jobs - like uber/lift or food delivery or groceries or amazon delivery - Legal immigration is closed for year and half. That is almost 2 million working individuals - Few people that I know who got covid, and are in 40s & 50s don't feel that they are…

The vast majority of COVID-19 deaths were in the 65+ age group. They were mostly not employed and their deaths, while tragic, didn't significantly reduce the labor pool.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#54
post #36
post #12

An otherwise insightful (but somewhat crass) comment seems to have been immediately [dead] upon being posted, but I think they might be on to something. Readers: I hope you don't mind me momentarily intervening in the voting process, but I will post the comment below for others who may not have show-dead turned on to see. EDIT: Even more curious, the majority of this accounts otherwise normal posts seem to be [dead]…

It's a valid take. Not one I necessarily agree with, but one that deserves exploration. IMO we are facing costs and painful trade offs: * Many insisted that the "moral" course of action was shutting the economy down during Covid to minimize deaths. Well, OK, there is a price for that in terms of destroying businesses and livelihoods, of loneliness and isolation. A lot of people are now stressed out, out of work - and…

These are trolley problems all the way down. For which, there is probably no solution, save for educating the public as to what a trolly problem is. But, no one does that. So, instead, we have 'moral clarity'. I don't see how a country can work in such conditions for very long...

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#55
I’m very annoyed that they mention safety so prominently. With miraculous vaccines available to all ages at significant risk, and data showing those vaccines continue to be effective at preventing bad outcomes from Delta, I just don’t think safety is an issue anymore except for exceptional cases like the immunocompromised.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on state. Red States happen to have recovered better. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-covid-recovery/90947

To be clear: this site defines "recovery" by combining COVID and economic factors - equally weighted. If we look solely at COVID transmission rate, that's a somewhat different picture: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100k...

Good catch. Actually, we were talking only about economic recovery.

NYTimes had a great writeup on the uneven recovery of the employment sector but I can't find it.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#57
post #53

Lets break it down who is missing from employment. - Almost million died due to Covid. - A lot of olders or those who can retire, left the workforce - Some took flexible jobs - like uber/lift or food delivery or groceries or amazon delivery - Legal immigration is closed for year and half. That is almost 2 million working individuals - Few people that I know who got covid, and are in 40s & 50s don't feel that they are…

The vast majority of COVID-19 deaths were in the 65+ age group. They were mostly not employed and their deaths, while tragic, didn't significantly reduce the labor pool. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

One could even argue that many of the deaths lessened the demand for things like geriatric care. Thus it could theoretically even increase labour pool.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear: this site defines "recovery" by combining COVID and economic factors - equally weighted. If we look solely at COVID transmission rate, that's a somewhat different picture: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100k...

Good catch. Actually, we were talking only about economic recovery. NYTimes had a great writeup on the uneven recovery of the employment sector but I can't find it.

Fair. I was mildly triggered when scanning this thread, so thought I'd make the metric clear to anyone else.

Back on topic, if you sort by Leasure/Travel or Economy/Labor, it is pretty clear that red states have the lead.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#59
post #46

I think the overall workforce participation rate paints the reality much better than unemployment numbers. The drop was the sharpest in the entire dataset going back to 1950 and while a portion of jobs have returned the possibility we may not see workforce participation return to pre COVID levels within the next 2-3 years is a definite possibility. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART Edit: St. Louis Fed quote…

Came here to say this. Unemployment numbers are such a joke of a statistic in a situation where unprecedented numbers of young adults left the workforce entirely in two subsequent recessions and we just don't count them

I don't think it's a joke, basically all statistics are useless in isolation. While it's true unemployment doesn't paint the whole picture, I see a declining labor participation rate as mostly a good thing. It implies families with one working parent, people living longing in retirement and more people going to school. If we tried to maximize for labor participation rate like we do unemployment rate, it would be a very depressing society.

Re: America’s unemployed are sending a message: Safety and compensation matter

#60

I think its more basic: 1. the restaurant they used to work at isn't there anymore 2. they moved back in with the parents and stopped giving a shit about the future 3. still living off their unemployment and stimulus...it will go to zero one day, but not today 4. even with a substantial raise, most jobs they qualify for will still leave them impoverished, so whats the point America's unemployed need deflation more th…

Unemployment was already cut off on 9/4. There are no more stimulus checks that I am aware of.
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