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Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

nature.com

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Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#71

Post by jdsully »

overton wrote: post #36
dmix wrote: post #28

> “This study suggests that HEPA air cleaners, which remain little-used in Canadian hospitals, What, they are "little used"? I'd assume that's the first place that would have adopted them. So strange how some hospitals operate.

Early on in the pandemic, the Canadian IPAC (Infection Control and Prevention) establishment came down hard against theories of airborne COVID transmission, at first even going so far as to not recommend masking. Even now that the science of airborne transmission has been established, they're waging a rearguard battle to obfuscate/deny it and airborne protections such as better ventilation and masking. If you go to a…

Having some experience with hospitals and N95 they asked that we put a surgical mask over the one we came with. Pointless and unnecessary but I guess it’s easier than having staff validate the mask your wearing.

They never required we remove a mask.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#72

Post by jleyank »

trutannus wrote: post #41
mmastrac wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the cost of installation outweighed the minor inconvenience of colds and flus spreading in the past. Only now that we have a deadlier virus does it make sense.

Most likely. Canada also has a habit of under-spending on healthcare in general. The system is also hypersensitive to political whims and can end up getting neglected as a result. This is because the provinces have direct control over every aspect of the healthcare system, and set the budget for them directly. Unlike other nations like Germany and Estonia, Canada's healthcare system is fully dependent on the provinci…

Have you lived any length of time in Canada? If so, where? While I have been fortunate enough to not have needed to go to hospital, my dental office reopened after the initial lockdown last year with a HEPA filter, doorway screen and other paraphernalia which made each workarea look like a clean room. And they shifted from water to air-driven cleaning and dressed like sci-fi actors. I would imagine the hospitals were similar due to the stress put upon them. Anecdotally, my wife had a breathing test in hospital a few days ago and they checked vaccination status and accepted the mask she walked in with.

Given that the federal government is responsible for funding much/most of the provincial health care system, they have some input into how things operate. Most provinces have a good handle on covid unless their government went too deep into the "covid is over" bit (Alberta, Saskatchewan). The covid response here was delayed due to the need to secure vaccines from others, but the end result has been quite good.

I have lived all over N America, and the freedom/flexibility of the Canadian health system has been better than anywhere except St. Louis, MO when I was there - and that required full-time employment.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#73

Post by noodlesUK »

nradov wrote: post #67
DantesKite wrote: post #63

Wouldn’t be a bad idea to start having air filters in confined spaces. Elevators, gyms, restaurants. Not saying it has to happen all at once, but it would help decrease most respiratory diseases from spreading.

I'm skeptical that would be good for overall long term health. There are only a limited number of endemic respiratory viruses. Most of us will be exposed to them at multiple times in our lives regardless of what protective steps we take. So I'd rather get them while I'm still relatively young and healthy because the resulting immunity will give me at least partial protection later in life. Of course ideally it would…

There are significant health benefits to cleaner air, not just from infectious disease, but also from particulate pollution and various other harmful substances. I strongly suspect that on the balance it would be a significant net positive from that aspect alone, though I don’t have possession of any hard evidence to back that up.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#75

Post by nostrebored »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #68
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm student teaching in a third grade classroom, and I want to add a least a small counter: We are required to have two HEPA filters always running in the classroom. They are loud. Combined with the fact that (1) children mumble, (2) the children have masks on, and (3) everyone is supposed to stay 3+ feet apart, it's quite hard to hear what a lot of kids are saying! I don't know what the right answer is, but what we…

We have the Austin Air Healhmates at work. They are quiet. That said the real failure was the FDA not making getting the vaccine approved for your 3rd graders by the start of the school year. Frankly I don't know how those guys can look themselves in the mirror while they are shaving in the morning. I think vaccine approval for 5-11 year olds is coming in early November.

Risk/reward here is absurd. This has never been about the safety of the children.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#77

Post by cottager2 »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #70
bsilvereagle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that filter efficiency is a function of particulate size. A MERV13 and a HEPA filter are nearly equivalent for filtering pollen, but have drastically different performance for smoke and virus particles. There’s a plot 1/3 of the way down the page that shows the curves: https://frdmtoplay.com/nagivating-air-purification/

"Virus particles" do not float free in the air to spread disease. It's usually mostly salt water aerosols with a few virus particles in them.

Is that known? I don’t think it’s been conclusively decided whether or not the virus spreads via aerosolized droplets or if it’s truly airborne.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#78

Post by epgui »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #70
bsilvereagle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that filter efficiency is a function of particulate size. A MERV13 and a HEPA filter are nearly equivalent for filtering pollen, but have drastically different performance for smoke and virus particles. There’s a plot 1/3 of the way down the page that shows the curves: https://frdmtoplay.com/nagivating-air-purification/

"Virus particles" do not float free in the air to spread disease. It's usually mostly salt water aerosols with a few virus particles in them.

They certainly can free-float, generally speaking, but SARS-CoV-2 in particular is indeed known to be mostly in droplets and aerosols.

Personally, I’d caution not to over-generalize this fact.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#79

Post by epgui »

cottager2 wrote: post #77
diebeforei485 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Virus particles" do not float free in the air to spread disease. It's usually mostly salt water aerosols with a few virus particles in them.

Is that known? I don’t think it’s been conclusively decided whether or not the virus spreads via aerosolized droplets or if it’s truly airborne.

It is known fairly well in the context of SARS-CoV-2, but other viruses may have different distributions.

Re: Real-world data show that filters clean Covid-causing virus from air

#80

Post by seventytwo »

roughly wrote: post #25
auslegung wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have believed this for about a year, based on things I was reading at that time. I thought this was widely known because as you point out, that’s kinda their purpose. This article acknowledges that it was shown to be effective in lab settings and this is mainly about seeing those results in real life settings. But come on, if anyone finds something that’s probably effective based on science and isn’t going to negat…

With the added bonus that it would be better for the students’ health generally and would likely improve overall educational outcomes. An awful lot of our handling of COVID has been farcical (a year and a half in, we’re still relying on cloth masks and obsessively sanitizing surfaces), but in the case of schools it’s veered toward absurdist/tragic.

The authorities have long since stopped recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning. Anyone still applying or recommending those methods isn’t up to date.

There’s nothing farcical about recommending cloth masks and surface cleaning during the first few months of the pandemic when nothing was known about how the virus spread and when masks needed to be reserved for those on the front lines.

The only farcical piece is how our society reacted to the recommendations of the experts.

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