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China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

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Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#91

In the West privately funded media has increased polarisation over the last 50 years, so having stronger public investments in media could be helpful to stop this pervasive divisiveness. China has the opposite configuration where the state controls all information and you'll be re-educated if you say the wrong thing loud enough. These are both extremes that are undesirable IMO.

It's not really opposites, though. Private media is highly centralized, and the people involved are also highly involved in politics (Rupert Murdoch, for instance). In China, high up party members are generally very wealthy, and wealthy people generally are highly involved in the party, so it's the same politically-well-connected elite that would be involved in media in the west in any case - it's just backed up by f…

Right. That something is private is by itself meaningless. This is a major problem in the West that many don't seem to understand, that the lines between the private and public sector are worthless and blurred if the private sector is powerful enough to function as a de facto arm of the government. Raw power is what counts. In terms of the media, CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes, WaPo, Fox, etc, are all de facto regime media outlets (Google and Facebook fall broadly into the same camp because they control the flow of information). The same oligarchic milieu that influences or runs the government influences or runs the media. They all go to the same schools, live in the same neighborhoods, go to the same parties, etc, etc. You don't need a Legion of Doom to orchestrate anything or any planning. Common interests and a similar lust for power causes a coincidental synthesis of mutually constructive arrangements that the same group finds beneficial. It happens naturally, as it were.

Another threat is foreign ownership of media. In Poland, where public media is explicitly controlled by whatever ruling party happens to be in power, there was recently a big media circus around introducing some media investment restrictions by foreign companies. Over 80% of Polish media are foreign owned, much of it in German hands, but not only. Best of all, it's not presented as representing the interests of those countries or groups. That's a huge problem for national security and a symptom of the neocolonial control the country is under (Piketty once described Poland as "foreign-owned"). Recent media brouhaha was triggered by an American media company (owned by Discovery). It's one thing to read about another POV. It's another to have foreign interests presented as your own and concealing their true nature. The Western media meanwhile routinely convince the Western public that anything against Western oligarchic interest in that region is fascist and other favorite epithets. They groom the public to view what's happening in a way that is untrue and benefits oligarchs. Colonialism still exists. We just call it other things now.

Also, divisiveness is not the primary problem, but downstream. If we focus on division, we risk throwing truth under the bus, especially in this climate of subjectivist "narratives". We are vulnerable to saying "to heal divisions, we must accept a common narrative". Heh, sorry, nope. That's the tyranny of the lie and the narrative makers (hence the foaming at the mouth by those who are losing control of the "official narrative"). The only thing worth uniting around is something true and something capable and worthy enough to function as a unifier. You need enough in common to create a workable society where coexistence and cooperation are possible. If we can't find something like that, then sorry, but you have no viable society.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#92
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example of non-profit news in the US is PBS Newshour and in Canada, The Agenda with Steve Paikin on TVO. Both have broadcast pieces as well as accompanying online articles.

PBS is funded by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which is tax money. So it's more like NPR or the BBC. Also, PBS has a variety of content and I don't think I know anyone who watches their news. Scarcely any of their content, but they have a few good things. I don't think they are taken very seriously as a news organization -- much less than NPR, for instance.

I'm pretty sure they've repeatedly mentioned that they're also funded by viewers like me ;-)

Yes, they get government funding and have a public mission. But they also aren't entirely funded by tax dollars.

I do think they have a weird bias that they are very oblivious to, but I don't think it's exactly a pro-government bias. It seems more like a don't-be-controversial bias where the goalpost for that keeps shifting.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#93
post #35

On the flip side China purchased most Chinese language media in Australia some time back. https://www.smh.com.au/national/chinese-language-newspapers-...

Seems like China sees Australia as the front line in their battle with the West. The recent nuclear submarine deal makes a lot more sense with that world view.

I have a feeling Australia will also get nukes reasonably soon. First nuke subs, then US bases with US nukes, then nuke subs with nukes. The Chinese pushed the Australians too far, they underestimated their obstinance. Australian attitudes are changing rapidly and in my view it won't take long until a nuclear deterrence becomes the obvious and only solution.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#94
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least theoretically, if customers actually valued accuracy, they would punish news organizations that were not accurate. A for profit newspaper would need to respond to the changing market. A not for profit newspaper could easily have a backer with other motivations, where they might be willing to sacrifice accuracy to push a particular agenda. I am not sure that the problem is the news. I do not think people real…

By that token snake oil in any shape or form shouldn't exist. Theoretically. In any case, the eyeballs are the product. The advertisers are increasingly the true customers of media outlets. They don't even theoretically care about accuracy.

Precisely. In that case people want hope/easy solutions rather than good solutions.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#95
post #82

If I’m a hardline Westerner and I feel like participating in a pro-Chinese Western Community, what are my options? HN isn’t the place for this. Basically, I’d like to praise China for the last handful of bold moves they’ve made, but the usual channels (FB, Twitter, Reddit, HN, …) are vehemently anti-China. I’d probably get shadowbanned or banned saying the three child policy is the way to go forward. Any suggestions?

> a pro-Chinese Western Community

If you mean pro-CCP, they have been at war with the rest of the world since the end of WW2. So understand what you're talking about.

The reason they've built hypersonic missiles and nuclear ballistic submarines is to point them at the US.

BRI is to gain ports for their navy.

> the last handful of bold moves

Virtually everything you've heard from the CCP is self-serving propaganda with no verifiable numbers.

They're facing an enormous demographic problem which the 3-child policy won't fix, and their stalled economy is revealing the mismanagement that decades of rapid growth hid - 70% of personal savings go into real estate investments, which are semi-Ponzi schemes.

Half of China's food and energy are imported, and the CCP relies on US capital markets. These 3 make China incredibly vulnerable, contrary to the image projected by the CCP.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#97
post #79
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west increasingly has completely independent news sources via places like YouTube.

A lot of these channels will have to leave the platform as anti fake news and disinformation laws get tougher

I guess its already happening. Many channels were complaining of shadow bans & demonetization.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#98

In the West privately funded media has increased polarisation over the last 50 years, so having stronger public investments in media could be helpful to stop this pervasive divisiveness. China has the opposite configuration where the state controls all information and you'll be re-educated if you say the wrong thing loud enough. These are both extremes that are undesirable IMO.

Publicly funded media will present the views of those in power. That does not mean it will be any less self-serving than private media. Government newspapers have a sorry history.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#99

In the West privately funded media has increased polarisation over the last 50 years, so having stronger public investments in media could be helpful to stop this pervasive divisiveness. China has the opposite configuration where the state controls all information and you'll be re-educated if you say the wrong thing loud enough. These are both extremes that are undesirable IMO.

The current state of Western Media is not very nice, but it is far from 'extreme'.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#100

In the West privately funded media has increased polarisation over the last 50 years, so having stronger public investments in media could be helpful to stop this pervasive divisiveness. China has the opposite configuration where the state controls all information and you'll be re-educated if you say the wrong thing loud enough. These are both extremes that are undesirable IMO.

It's not really opposites, though. Private media is highly centralized, and the people involved are also highly involved in politics (Rupert Murdoch, for instance). In China, high up party members are generally very wealthy, and wealthy people generally are highly involved in the party, so it's the same politically-well-connected elite that would be involved in media in the west in any case - it's just backed up by f…

> Private media is highly centralized, and the people involved are also highly involved in politics

Do you really think that people who write about politics can ever resist the urge to try to shape politics?

Why would a government journalist be any better?

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