Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software • Hacker News Board

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#21

Post by fermigier » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #7

smetsjp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a presentation at FOSDEM 2021 about FDL: https://fosdem.org/2021/schedule/event/fosstaxbreak/ Title: Give open source a (tax) break Cash that gets into FDL/LEF is then spent to sponsor existing FLOSS projects or to acquire intellectual property rights of existing works and change their license to FLOSS. Case 1: https://bossanova.uk/jspreadsheet/v4/ got financed partly by FDL/LEF Case 2: the radio hardware of…

> ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation How does it ensure that?

The selection process is described in details here: https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/

(Disclaimer: I'm one of the members of the selection committee. Ask me if you need more clarification).

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#22

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #21

solarkraft wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ensure that all projects that are financed by FDL/LEF have some kind of general interest or innovation How does it ensure that?

The selection process is described in details here: https://www.fdl-lef.org/process/ (Disclaimer: I'm one of the members of the selection committee. Ask me if you need more clarification).

[deleted]

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#23

Post by tqazn » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #17

gntyo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simon Peyton Jones would not qualify (though he has an honorary doctorate now). In OSS scientific software, many PhDs have management jobs, where they write a couple of grand sounding fantasy roadmaps and have creative people who report to them. Printing money basically.

"Printing money" ? Really ? For the main European granting programme (Horizon Europe), the success rate is approximately 5%. In France, for funding schemes like ANR (Agence Nationale de la Recherche ~= the NSF in the US), it also between 5% and 10%. This means lead researchers need to put enormous time and effort into the grant application process, with extremely random results, even for the best cases. (As someone w…

“The manager is the dynamic, life-giving element in every business”

At best this self-glorification applies to physical work like an Amazon distribution center, where one indeed needs direct people skills of a certain kind.

It applies less to intellectual endeavors in general.

It does not apply at all to software development, where a plethora of successful projects proves the direct opposite. It happens, of course, that projects succeed despite the manager, who still gets the credit.

Fred Brooks' works apply to software, not Peter Drucker's.

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#24

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #16

cpach wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an … interesting requirement. In France there is, AFAIK, an exaggerated emphasis on the importance of holding a PhD title. IMHO I can’t really see the strong connection between acquiring an PhD and the ability to successfully lead open source projects.

As stated on the web site: "In order to be eligible to act on the committee, members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software. We are currently looking for new committee members." -> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

Yeah... but why? What attribute do you think is unique to people with PhDs?

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#25

Post by smetsjp » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #24

fermigier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated on the web site: "In order to be eligible to act on the committee, members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software. We are currently looking for new committee members." -> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only. Yeah... but why? What attribute do you think is unique to people with PhDs?

Holders of a PhD are considered as "capable of assessing the state of the art" by Tax authorities. Having PhDs in the committee which decides of grants thus reduces to legal risk of later seing tax cuts being cancelled by Tax authorities.

Regarding projects which receive a grant, holding a PhD does not matter.

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#26

Post by fermigier » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #24

fermigier wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated on the web site: "In order to be eligible to act on the committee, members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software. We are currently looking for new committee members." -> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

> The PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only. Yeah... but why? What attribute do you think is unique to people with PhDs?

I don't believe that people with PhDs have "unique attributes". There are, specially in the field of computing science, examples of exceptionally gifted and influential researchers without PhDs (e.g. Denis Ritchie, Simon Peyton-Jones...).

What a Phd recognizes, and is relevant to the project at hand, is the ability "to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge".

(Per Wikipedia: "Because it is an earned research degree, those studying for a PhD are required to produce original research that expands the boundaries of knowledge, normally in the form of a thesis or dissertation, and defend their work against experts in the field. The completion of a PhD is often a requirement for employment as [...] a scientist in many fields.")

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#27

Post by indymike » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

fermigier wrote: post #18

indymike wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only a PhD can innovate?

As stated in my previous comment, the PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

Is only a PhD is capable of recognizing libre software deserving of support?

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#28

Post by indymike » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

smetsjp wrote: post #4

indymike wrote: post #3

Please, please fix the text justification on this site. It is unreadable on mobile.

I just checked on my mobile and it was OK. Can you send a screenshot to me (jp@smets.com) so that we can improve?

Email sent.

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#29

Post by fermigier » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #27

fermigier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in my previous comment, the PhD requirement is for sitting on the selection committee only.

Is only a PhD is capable of recognizing libre software deserving of support?

Nowhere is it implied that this could be true.

Re: Libre Endowment Fund: Sustainable Development of Free Software

#30

Post by cycomanic » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

fanpx wrote: post #2

"Members are required to have an PhD in Mathematics or Computer Science related disciplines as well as being authors of FLOSS/Free Software." First of all, it is "a PhD", secondly, this looks like the typical scientific ecosystem power grab that we have seen multiple times in the US. In the Python scientific space, people doing actual work are exploited ruthlessly.

Reading the website this is for committee members only (it has nothing to do with if a project is eligible). This seems to largely be a requirement for tax reasons.

As a side note, I find it unfortunate that often when things like this get posted, e.g. a foundation who supports free-software in this case, the first posts are not "this is a great thing", but instead someone goes through the website until they find something they disagree with and creates a negative debate and misinformation (several people here already understood the sentence to mean that projects led by non-PhDs can't apply).