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China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

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Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#61

Post by More-nitors »

th0ma5 wrote: post #58
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure many in the west would see divisiveness as a negative, in so much that it seems necessary to reach an stable equilibrium. Yes, one side will find the other side’s position infuriating, but China is the result of what happens when one side completely wins over the other. Because there is no equilibrium to be had, they can only emphasize unity.

Not defending China's idea at all, but with private media in this country having a financial motivation to knowingly lie is pretty reprehensible. They have the right to do it sure, and they should, but if a good portion of a populace lives in a fiction, that isn't great. And to be clear while leftist stuff can be extreme, sure, the current major problem is right wing extremist lies are clearly more detrimental just b…

> with private media in this country having a financial motivation to knowingly lie is pretty reprehensible.

That can be balanced-out with other media outlets voicing other side.

And... not attacking China's great political unification, having and using politics to censor out a lot of government corruption that ultimately hurts its own people... doesn't look great

(no 'political balance-of-power' + no freedom-of-speech/press + no-election: the government officials can de facto do whatever they want, from small things like accepting bribes for not noticing fake-food factories, to uh... ok I'll stop now.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#62

Post by fellodip »

gruez wrote: post #18
roenxi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans don't seem to trust the press. Faith in "Mass Media" has plummeted to levels appropriate to their reliability on important issues [0]. And the media is a strange place. Something like Joe Rogan's podcast is realistically more mainstream and probably more trusted than most news programs. There will be many examples like that. [0] https://news.gallup.com/poll/195542/americans-trust-mass-med...

>Something like Joe Rogan's podcast is realistically more mainstream and probably more trusted than most news programs How can you "trust" a podcast that just interviews everyone and takes them at face value? Do people seriously go "yeah I heard it on joe rogan so I think it's probably true"?

I like to think of there being different domains of trust. Trust to present accurate information to their best knowledge, trust to thoroughly vet information, trust to not construe facts to construct a false reality (ie a narrative), trust to tell it like it is, trust to not present a biased self interested story that omits important things purposefully, trust to be an expert on the subject matter, and so on.

Obviously any thinking individual will know Joe Rogan is worse at some of these aspects than mainstream media but they also recognize that mainstream media will willfully consistently violate other domains where Joe Rogan won't.

I trust Joe Rogan will tell me some stupid stuff about conspiracies and extra dimensionality trips, but I also trust that he won't tell me this stuff just to sell me on sponsors or his party's agenda, unlike the mainstream news.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#63

Post by gpt5 »

notfromhere wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like China sees Australia as the front line in their battle with the West. The recent nuclear submarine deal makes a lot more sense with that world view.

ANZAC are the only two European settled Western countries in Asia, so not surprising. Especially since Australia is so closely integrated into the Anglosphere.

ANZAC stands for Army corps, not for the countries. And the countries have hemselves are not in Asia.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#64

Post by gpt5 »

notfromhere wrote: post #49
refurb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like China sees Australia as the front line in their battle with the West. The recent nuclear submarine deal makes a lot more sense with that world view.

ANZAC are the only two European settled Western countries in Asia, so not surprising. Especially since Australia is so closely integrated into the Anglosphere.

ANZAC stands for Army corps, not for the countries. And the countries have themselves are not in Asia.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#65

Post by TeMPOraL »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #42
djohnston wrote: post #29

In the West privately funded media has increased polarisation over the last 50 years, so having stronger public investments in media could be helpful to stop this pervasive divisiveness. China has the opposite configuration where the state controls all information and you'll be re-educated if you say the wrong thing loud enough. These are both extremes that are undesirable IMO.

I’m not sure many in the west would see divisiveness as a negative, in so much that it seems necessary to reach an stable equilibrium. Yes, one side will find the other side’s position infuriating, but China is the result of what happens when one side completely wins over the other. Because there is no equilibrium to be had, they can only emphasize unity.

If you want to balance a system dynamically, you want negative, not positive feedback loops. The latter will just grow until they shake the system apart.

In other words: polarisation is useful when it's transient. Some issue causes people to divide and work out some consensus, and then divisions die down. A persistent divison that becomes its own end is destructive.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#66

Post by chmod600 »

idontwantthis wrote: post #39
chmod600 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does non-profit news look like? A few rich people starting non-profit and making news might not be very trustworthy. I guess you mean a wide group of donors. But non-profits have a lot of trouble raising money without controversy. Imagine trying to solicit donations when every other story alienates half the donors. And it doesn't really answer a lot of the hard questions. Who is going to actually write the artic…

There’s NPR/PBS and it’s fantastic.

I don't think that's what the parent post had in mind. Those are more like state-sponsored news. Technically non-profit, but usually considered a different category.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#67

Post by ethbr0 »

jollybean wrote: post #36
ethbr0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Communist countries tend to have very messy transfers of power, if not through continuity or annointment of a new leader by the old? And by messy I mean armed forces involvement and/or bodies in the streets.

China has had a decent track record, they are well organized. If Xi truly believed in China, then he would make it a priority to facilitate a smooth transition of power, and to enable the leader after their ascension. I really don't think this is much of an excuse for him. The story is really simple - CCP wants to forbid any private control of information, that's it. It's not a new concept.

The Deng -> Zhao -> Jiang -> Hu years weren't very clean, and did have military involvement and civilian deaths.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#68

Post by azernik »

user_named wrote: post #2

This news story is off. Foreign entities have always been forbidden from engaging in media production and publishing in China. While the negative list is updated yearly, this isn't new.

This also removes domestic (Chinese) private capital from the possible investors/owners.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#69

Post by th0ma5 »

More-nitors wrote: post #61
th0ma5 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not defending China's idea at all, but with private media in this country having a financial motivation to knowingly lie is pretty reprehensible. They have the right to do it sure, and they should, but if a good portion of a populace lives in a fiction, that isn't great. And to be clear while leftist stuff can be extreme, sure, the current major problem is right wing extremist lies are clearly more detrimental just b…

> with private media in this country having a financial motivation to knowingly lie is pretty reprehensible. That can be balanced-out with other media outlets voicing other side. And... not attacking China's great political unification, having and using politics to censor out a lot of government corruption that ultimately hurts its own people... doesn't look great (no 'political balance-of-power' + no freedom-of-spee…

None of that is refuting what I am saying. I agree with all of that.

Re: China proposes prohibiting private investment in news service sector

#70

Post by osigurdson »

Jensson wrote: post #3

I wonder why people don't demand more non-profit news or why articles written by for-profit organizations are as trusted as they are. Why should people trust articles written by NyT over articles written by Google?

I'm not sure we should demand non-profit or government funded media, but I do like the idea of media outlets being legally required to disclose any conflicts of interest or funding sources which may bias content one way or the other.
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