This is exactly why I don't use password protection on my MacBook Pro.
Why you don't steal from a hacker.
151–160 of 166 posts
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#152Glad the person got their Mac back, but why does this story and ones like it always end at the recovery of the property? Could we get an update on the punishment of the criminal? I'd like to know what kind of repercussions the criminals suffer--do they get prosecuted? I'm just curious if these software tracking systems have been used in court as evidence to convict any of these criminals.
I was wondering that too. I was thinking that perhaps this guy had gone and screwed around with his social network given the facebook screen cap at the end. Of course if someone steals your laptop, and using software you've installed you keylog all their secrets and you use their credit card to buy themselves a hundred pizzas each from 10 stores around town, that would be a bit much perhaps. I know from experience (n…
Yes, that is usually the punishment that these kids gets, usually the victim knows the kid and did not put charges.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#153Glad the person got their Mac back, but why does this story and ones like it always end at the recovery of the property? Could we get an update on the punishment of the criminal? I'd like to know what kind of repercussions the criminals suffer--do they get prosecuted? I'm just curious if these software tracking systems have been used in court as evidence to convict any of these criminals.
Maybe the criminal was a minor.
At least in my country (Bolivia) if he is a minor almost nothing is done, he'll walk out free.
I'm sure this is not the case in every country.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#154"took a report and dusted for prints, performed typical forensics" I'm impressed that the police dust for prints in England. I've never heard of someone getting that kind of thoroughness for a domestic burglary where I live.
When my house was burgled, the cops sent out 3 cars, did a thorough inspection, took inventory of what had been stolen, and dusted for prints in places we indicated were likely to have been touched (the windowframe where they came in, some doorknobs, and the box fan they had moved). This was in Rochester's 19th Ward (New York), possibly the most dangerous and high-crime part of town. As far as I know, they never caug…
Same in Paris when my brother's apartment was burgled a few months ago... 2 members of the French Scientific Police took pictures / fingerprints. I didn't think they'd go that far, having read countless stories on how this is usually handled in the US.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#155Am I the only one who feels that it's wrong to put someone's personal information and picture on the internet just because he stole a laptop? Of course you get your personal information stolen as well, but in my opinion that doesn't justify spreading his image and name all over the internet. that kind of intrusion into privacy (of the thief) is a much bigger crime in my eyes than the loss of some laptop.
We had this discussion the last time something like this was on HN, so I’ll try to summarize things from my biased point of view. The first thing is, some people (myself included) would say this fellow is a suspect but has yet to be convicted of a crime. Some people would wait until a conviction is registered to publish details like this. Others take a pitchforks and torches approach. I recall people saying, “publish…
Must it be the civilized versus the savages? Are you sure that's a fair description?
How about this: it's my laptop, and I reserve the right to use it to take pictures any time I see fit?
I'm okay with running the picture of the guy, and publishing the data, as long as there's a clear disclaimer that this is just information pulled from your own laptop, not presented as evidence in some kind of criminal proceeding. We do this all the time with videos on the news that show crimes in progress. Heck, we did it with the rioters. Local papers ran big pictures of them on the front page. Simply making public video and data that you have every right to have and use isn't the same as calling the guy a crook and demanding he be hanged.
Now yes, the mob will probably take over from there, but that's because the net is full of mobs, not because you've somehow made a mistake in publishing the data. I am very concerned about folks taking justice into their own hands, but I don't think that my concern somehow changes the right of this guy to publish his own data.
There's no "we know the bastard did it, so there" that has to be involved. I load my laptop up with whatever legal programs I like, and I choose to publish the data from those programs any time I feel like it.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
We had this discussion the last time something like this was on HN, so I’ll try to summarize things from my biased point of view. The first thing is, some people (myself included) would say this fellow is a suspect but has yet to be convicted of a crime. Some people would wait until a conviction is registered to publish details like this. Others take a pitchforks and torches approach. I recall people saying, “publish…
Must it be the civilized versus the savages? Are you sure that's a fair description? How about this: it's my laptop, and I reserve the right to use it to take pictures any time I see fit? I'm okay with running the picture of the guy, and publishing the data, as long as there's a clear disclaimer that this is just information pulled from your own laptop, not presented as evidence in some kind of criminal proceeding. W…
How about this: it's my laptop, and I reserve the right to use it to take pictures any time I see fit?
That statement is like saying “This is my gun, I reserve the right to shoot bullets from it any way I like.” Obviously every action we take with our person and our property has consequences and we are responsible for those consequences we can reasonably foresee.
Clearly there is a continuum of choices from sharing the pictures with law enforcement but not publishing them, to publishing them but being careful to disclaim that this person has not been convicted of committing a crime, to publishing them and asserting this is the thief. You pick where you feel comfortable on that line, I pick where I feel comfortable.
Looking at the commentary here and the last two similar things to hit HN, you must accept that regardless of where you or I might place ourselves, there are definitely people to the far right of the line. You can see people talking about this person as “the thief” without bothering with the inconvenience of a trail. You can see people discussing the publicity as a pubnishment. One comment talks about “naming and shaming” as a deterrant.
You may not consider yourself part of a lynch mob, but seriously, can you deny that such an element is present?
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#157What I don't understand: I you're so concerned that someone steals your laptop, why do you then install tracking software instead of encrypting your harddrive? If someone steals my laptop I wouldn't care about the cost of lost hardware. Instead I'd care more about my private data that now is in the hands of someone else.
I guess it depends on the person. I have more private data on Facebook than I have on my computer. The cost would be a big problem to me though, I can't afford to buy a new laptop every year.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Must it be the civilized versus the savages? Are you sure that's a fair description? How about this: it's my laptop, and I reserve the right to use it to take pictures any time I see fit? I'm okay with running the picture of the guy, and publishing the data, as long as there's a clear disclaimer that this is just information pulled from your own laptop, not presented as evidence in some kind of criminal proceeding. W…
How about this: it's my laptop, and I reserve the right to use it to take pictures any time I see fit? That statement is like saying “This is my gun, I reserve the right to shoot bullets from it any way I like.” Obviously every action we take with our person and our property has consequences and we are responsible for those consequences we can reasonably foresee. Clearly there is a continuum of choices from sharing t…
You may not consider yourself part of a lynch mob, but seriously, can you deny that such an element is present?
No, and I'm very concerned about it. But the only choices are the ones I have to make. I can't start worrying about everybody else. In fact, once I let the threat of a mob start swaying my decisions, I've already lost. The mob has won. (ugh. hated doing that, but it was too rhetorically easy.)
You get my drift. I think, for me, that I need to think long and hard about what the consequences might be. But quite honestly, here's some guy I don't know using my computer. Anybody know this guy? Perhaps he's being held hostage for all I know. The more information I get out there, the sooner we can have this thing resolved. I don't have to jump all the way to some conclusion simply because I need to solicit information about the location of my laptop. After all, I'm the innocent guy here.
I didn't read the other articles, but it sounds like you are reacting against the mob mentality found here and elsewhere. Yes, this concerns me a great, great deal. The internet was supposed to bring equality and democracy. It's done that, but it's also brought flash mobs robbing stores, riots, and vigilante justice. Not good. We should all speak out against that -- especially when it's a cause that sounds "right" to us.
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason that people are annoyed is because the title of the article is misleading. Yes, this guy may be a "hacker" in the sense of the word that we all like to use (he's a programmer). The issue is that the article is titled "Why you don't steal from a hacker". This is not actually an appropriate name for the article, because it's not the writer's status as a hacker that leads to the final result. It is the writer…
I think the headline implies that a hacker/security professional is more likely to have something like prey installed than, say, someone like my non-technical mom.
I think that's also a very reasonable point of view. However, at the same time, I its also reasonable to say that there is a group that could include people we would consider non-hackers that use this type of application (e.g., those with any sensitive/private information on their computers). Maybe they wouldn't use the exact same application, but something to track their laptop may be of use. Then again, maybe those people can afford a system with a built in tracking devise that can't easily be removed (requires more than just wiping the system). Meanwhile, hackers are left to add a "hack" to their computer that can do the same thing.
Honestly, I see your point, and both sides. I've just met a few people that have a similar service installed onto their phones, and I certainly would not call them hackers. Similarly, if someone told me they had this installed on their computer, I wouldn't think, "Oh, cool! S/he's a hacker!" On the other hand, if I saw someone starting "Learn Python the Hard Way" I _would_ think, "Oh shit, s/he's becoming a hacker!". Anyway, I don't really care too much. You do make a good point though. In general, a hacker might be more likely to aggressively try to track you down :)
Re: Why you don't steal from a hacker.
#160Why didn't a real hacker have a keylogger installed on his machine instead of just the webcam thing? You could have gotten the guys' password to his facebook
In my experience, hackers don't normally keylog themselves. That's the kind of thing they'd rather avoid — it could be especially disastrous if your computer were stolen like this.
Encrypt the logs with your public key. Do not keep the private key anywhere near the machines, containing the encrypted logs. Move logs to a remote secure storage (co-located or home-hosted) as soon as Internet connection's available. Assure reasonable amount of electronic and physical security of the storage servers.
Problem solved!