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Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#81

Post by 4ad »

mdp2021 wrote: post #65
4ad wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I live in Austria and I wish to emigrate to the US. I consider Europe, and Austria in particular a living nightmare.

So do you confirm the availability of "horror stories", as mentioned? Kindly share why you consider Austria a nightmare. I got mixed signals from the place. While some people are extremely friendly, I also perceived quite a defensive atmosphere. Something solid on the surface but struggling below it, like a defence of daily routine - not really lively or happy. But it could also depend on the region, I guess.

There are many horror stories indeed. Xenofobia is a big thing here, but unlike the US where racism is direct and in your face, here it is subtle. People are polite, but that won't help you get that raise that native Austrians colleagues would get.

While all these things are important, my main issue is far deeper, see my reply to alangibson.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#82

Post by pasabagi »

mdp2021 wrote: post #77
pasabagi wrote: post #62

Moved to Germany from the UK. In practical terms, Germany is so far ahead it's not comparable. The quality of life here is better making minimum wage here than it is if you're on a decent wage in the UK. A lot of the difference is housing - in the UK, you're usually paying a lot of money to live in a shithole. Also, as other commentators have noted, everything is falling apart in the UK, so even if you have money, yo…

The idea of "assimilation" (which also reminds of some directions taken by France) clashes with some important interpretations of «Culturally, in the broader sense, Germany is great». The idea of having to do courses on "becoming German" is downright creepy. Is it a crisis of identity, or maybe some unclear practical reason?

Yeah, it is creepy, and you're right, it does clash.

What I'm getting at here is there's a dominant culture, which is essentially based on the idea that national unity is important, and that unity comes from people being on the same cultural page. So if you're an immigrant, that's fine, but you have to get with the program and become a normal german, because germany is the nation of the german people, and that's (at this point in time) a cultural grouping. It's a pretty classic european-nation thing, and you're right in pointing out it's there in France - it goes back to the founding ideas of european nation states as a form of organization.

There is however, a really vibrant subculture, full of people who believe all sorts of things, and that's big enough that it has some political weight. So you do get a good deal of pushback against the most egregious forms of chauvanism, far more so than you get in the UK.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#84

Post by smoe »

jll29 wrote: post #56
smoe wrote: post #28

Swiss living in Colombia for a bit over 5 years. There is not that much of a path or sophisticated plan to it. I was tired of Switzerland/Europe and wanted to try different things for at least a while. I have travelled Latin America extensively before and had a short list of potential countries/cities. After that it was basically a couple of months for finding a job I'm exited about and winding down obligations and c…

Bill Bryson: "You can't come home _again_."

Bill Bryson reflecting on this quote

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/br...

"So, on balance, I was wrong. You can go home again. Just bring extra money for road maps and remember to ask for spackle."

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#85

Post by jseban »

4ad wrote: post #76
alangibson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It could be it just doesn't suit your personality. If you a 'rise and grind' type of person, I can see it being hell.

Well I could enumerate all the material things that are worse in Europe and better in the US (I have lived in the US enough time to have an informed opinion), but that would get old, and in the end it would miss the point, as I could just as well enumerate countless things which are better in Europe compared to US. The real issue (which causes all the above differences anyway) is cultural. What matters is not compari…

> For me, Europe is an socialist dystopia which punishes individualism, risk-taking, private businesses, and where people don't have a passion for much, no hobbies, and no aspirations.

I'm from the EU and I totally agree with you, I'm always having trouble fitting in because you are required to be so passive.

I need to have some sort of aspiration for every day, that's what gives me purpose and meaning, and in the end happiness. And I get really depressed and demotivated when I'm forced to stagnate from idleness.

I guess you can always argue that it's a matter of preference, if you are the type of person that wants to have a safe and secure life, knowing that you're cared for in every day, and knowing that tomorrow will be identical to today. Or if you're the type of person that thrives on hopes and dreams and need to be motivated and stimulated by some kind of vision. But I'm also having a hard time seeing how Europe will stay competitive and innovative with such a culture, even if it can be argued to be "morally superior".

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#86

Post by alangibson »

4ad wrote: post #76
alangibson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It could be it just doesn't suit your personality. If you a 'rise and grind' type of person, I can see it being hell.

Well I could enumerate all the material things that are worse in Europe and better in the US (I have lived in the US enough time to have an informed opinion), but that would get old, and in the end it would miss the point, as I could just as well enumerate countless things which are better in Europe compared to US. The real issue (which causes all the above differences anyway) is cultural. What matters is not compari…

I don't disagree with anything you said. You should definitely move to the USA. It's tailor made for people with your perspective on things.

For people with mine, Europe is perfect. For instance, I think this is just an obvious fact

> People see their bosses as their enemy

and I think this is a great idea

> Mandatory (!!) union participation

Also, a big part of your comment was about the amount of stuff available. What I always tell young folks I talk to here that are thinking about moving to the US is this: If you want to own a lot of stuff, move to the US. If you want anything else stay here.

Edit: I missed this line that I do disagree with:

> people don't have a passion for much, no hobbies, and no aspirations.

You should have applied the same distribution analysis here as you did for cheese. People have plenty of hobbies, just in a narrower range (ie regional outdoors sports). There are even motorsports, but for common people it tends to be confined to tuning VW hatchbacks.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#87

Post by alangibson »

jseban wrote: post #85
4ad wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I could enumerate all the material things that are worse in Europe and better in the US (I have lived in the US enough time to have an informed opinion), but that would get old, and in the end it would miss the point, as I could just as well enumerate countless things which are better in Europe compared to US. The real issue (which causes all the above differences anyway) is cultural. What matters is not compari…

> For me, Europe is an socialist dystopia which punishes individualism, risk-taking, private businesses, and where people don't have a passion for much, no hobbies, and no aspirations. I'm from the EU and I totally agree with you, I'm always having trouble fitting in because you are required to be so passive. I need to have some sort of aspiration for every day, that's what gives me purpose and meaning, and in the en…

Europe is crap for entrepreneurs to be sure. However, Europe is high up on the value chain for many industries that actually require a "move slow and don't break things" mentality. Aerospace, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#88

Post by bovermyer »

drstewart wrote: post #58
alangibson wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! What are you talking about? That comment was in response to a question about differences between the countries. The USA is a 3rd world country because we allow people to literally and figuratively rot on the street. There are many others of course... Can I assume from your aggrieved attitude and uncharitable reading that you're a fellow American?

When the top thing you can think of as the main difference is that you can get blasted at 11am in a foreign country, the "uncharitable reading" is that you're an alcoholic, not that you're a sheltered emigrant that doesn't know what a real third world country is like.

Wow.

Um, maybe step away from the computer and go for a walk or something.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#89

Post by alangibson »

radicalbyte wrote: post #16

Met my now wife playing online games back in 1999. Moved to The Netherlands from the UK in 2006. Learnt the language, integrated and settled here. We're absolutely killing it here - it was the best decision of my life. We live in a safe stable country which isn't dominated by the wishes of the selfish elderly. We have a fairly well functioning state with a strong social safety net. We're both business owners, have a…

> selfish elderly

No one wants to say it, but this is a huge problem on the US too. They used to talk about the Soviet Union being run by a gerontocracy, but Biden makes Brezhnev look like a young upstart.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#90

Post by drstewart »

alangibson wrote: post #79
mdp2021 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you confirm the availability of "horror stories", as mentioned? Kindly share why you consider Austria a nightmare. I got mixed signals from the place. While some people are extremely friendly, I also perceived quite a defensive atmosphere. Something solid on the surface but struggling below it, like a defence of daily routine - not really lively or happy. But it could also depend on the region, I guess.

I don't disagree with the vibes you picked up on. I get that same feeling in most cold weather counties though. Maybe Nietzsche was right about that. I wouldn't say people are overtly happy at all. Something like 'jolly on occasion' is a better fit. They kind of store it up for parties and festivals. This isn't a negative for me though. It's rather have honesty that the sickly sweet fake nice you get in the US. At le…

>It's rather have honesty that the sickly sweet fake nice you get in the US.

Or maybe people are genuinely nice in the US and there's just an subconscious anxiety and depression in Austria?

>At least where I live, people like to complain a lot. Idle grousing is sort of a pass time. Honestly I'm not sure why.

Perhaps a subconscious anxiety and depression? Seems like Austria is a failing society to be honest.

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