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Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

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Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#61
post #27

Moved from the UK to France after the Brexit vote (the last chance to easily move my family to another country and have my kids grow up as Europeans with the ability to work and live in the EU country of their choice, access low cost or free university education etc.) I'm a contractor and felt reasonably sure I could find work as an android developer in most large cities - Paris is also close enough that if things re…

About the bit regarding you possibly commuting from Paris to London for work, I'm curious - how would that even work? Would you go through customs every morning/evening? Has anyone here done this?

Ahh I see what you mean, it would typically involve staying in a London hotel a few nights a week. Maybe traveling in on Monday mornings, and leaving on Friday afternoon.

I do have a British passport still, and I have a french residence permit, so in both directions it's fairly simple anyway (and the Eurostar is almost like taking a regular national train but it's a good 2-3 hours). Taking a flight is a bit more hassle and terrible for the environment (but cheaper).

About 20 years ago in London I worked with a guy who commuted from Greece(!) to London once a week. London salary, worked from home on Mondays, came in on Tuesday morning, budget London hotel on Wednesday and Thursday night, and back to a big house in Greece for the weekend.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#62
Moved to Germany from the UK.

In practical terms, Germany is so far ahead it's not comparable. The quality of life here is better making minimum wage here than it is if you're on a decent wage in the UK. A lot of the difference is housing - in the UK, you're usually paying a lot of money to live in a shithole. Also, as other commentators have noted, everything is falling apart in the UK, so even if you have money, you can look forward to taking trains that break all the time, driving on roads that have holes in them, etc.

In mainstream cultural terms, a lot of germans don't like foreigners, and are pretty rude if they pick up that you're not german, although a lot of that is modulated by where you're from. That extends to germans who work for the state - the auslanderbehoerde is pretty famous for being generally miserable to deal with. The state's basic policy is 'assimilation', so you're basically expected to leave your culture at the door and become 'German', and the state has a pretty narrow definition of what that means (Oktoberfest, christian religious holidays, slightly dubious history etc), and depending on where you're from, you'll have to do courses on this stuff, which can be pretty depressing.

If you're black, there's a certain level of racially-motivated violence in some places, although I think the basic level of violent street crime compares favourably to the UK - it compares extremely favourably if you're white. Still, because of the aforementioned rudeness thing, friends I've had who migrated from Africa generally have a pretty bad time living here.

Culturally, in the broader sense, Germany is great. The music scene is great here, the art scene, classical music, the food and youth culture etc are all really good, and very welcoming to foreigners. You meet people with a very broad range of views and lifestyles, there are parks and galleries and playgrounds and all sorts of stuff that makes you feel like you're actually living in a 'culture' worth engaging in, not just a bunch of people decompressing after a work-week.

The thing I like most about living in Germany is it's a pretty reasonable country. If you deal with institutions, they'll generally talk to you as a rational human. If you live in a city, the city will generally maintain parks and public spaces because they'll see that as important to the community. Money is set aside for cultural life, youth recreation, sports, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't think the idea of not being within 20 steps of a beer makes a country 3rd world. Sorry, but that's pretty insulting to actual people living in poverty. Then again, all in all it's pretty privileged to be able to have such a sheltered view of the world, so good on ya.

From the father comment, that was what you took away from his message? > "People are generally more relaxed to the point that it annoyed me for years. I attribute this to the lack of any concept of 'hustle' and not being worried about dying in poverty. I think a huge amount of the American personality comes from a subconscious anxiety over how precarious we live." I think this was the bigger driver over his personal…

You nailed it. The beer thing was just adding some local color.

drstewart's comment is a great example of what I mean by the US not being a functioning society. What you have there now is a conglomeration of individuals all with their knives out waiting for anyone around then to trip up in the most trivial way. I believe this is caused by the anxiety I mentioned already, and it in turn causes anxiety in everyone else. Everyone becomes negatively charged and thus they repel each other.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#64
post #27

Moved from the UK to France after the Brexit vote (the last chance to easily move my family to another country and have my kids grow up as Europeans with the ability to work and live in the EU country of their choice, access low cost or free university education etc.) I'm a contractor and felt reasonably sure I could find work as an android developer in most large cities - Paris is also close enough that if things re…

France can be tough!

Low salaries, high taxes, high prices around Paris area, heavy administration (I don’t wish anyone going to a prefecture!), hard to find information about services, hard and expensive to find apartment or relocate, congested public transport, mono-lingual static culture, hard to make friend with French, public litter and lack of cleanliness, periodic strikes, small apartments (in EU in general), complexity of system, no-skin-in-the-game nature of public system produces a lot of dysfunction everywhere, etc.

I for one gave up!

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#65
post #36

I married an Austrian while living with her in Texas. I made exactly zero plans before moving. She had the better degree by far so it only made sense to move to Austria. Getting a job was easy by local standards due to a tight local market for programmers. Getting through German classes to earn the permanent residency was the toughest part. I would never consider moving back to the USA. I was always a sceptic of the…

Funny, I live in Austria and I wish to emigrate to the US. I consider Europe, and Austria in particular a living nightmare.

So do you confirm the availability of "horror stories", as mentioned? Kindly share why you consider Austria a nightmare.

I got mixed signals from the place. While some people are extremely friendly, I also perceived quite a defensive atmosphere. Something solid on the surface but struggling below it, like a defence of daily routine - not really lively or happy. But it could also depend on the region, I guess.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! What are you talking about? That comment was in response to a question about differences between the countries. The USA is a 3rd world country because we allow people to literally and figuratively rot on the street. There are many others of course... Can I assume from your aggrieved attitude and uncharitable reading that you're a fellow American?

When the top thing you can think of as the main difference is that you can get blasted at 11am in a foreign country, the "uncharitable reading" is that you're an alcoholic, not that you're a sheltered emigrant that doesn't know what a real third world country is like.

I'm feeling like you're trolling now, but I'll bite anyway:

1. The one line you are harping on is half way down a list of things, not at the top. 2. It's obviously just a literary indulgence to add some local color 3. I've spent 2.5 years traveling rough and solo through the Global South which I hope counts for something. I'm gonna guess you consider any kind of pleasure travel to be privilege though.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#67
I'm a Brit - got a grad job at SCO in 1998, then moved to Sun in 2000 when SCO imploded, then decided to emigrate when Sun started imploding in 2005. I was initially planning to move to Israel - I'm Jewish, so don't need a visa, I speak decent Hebrew, got friends and family there, and there's plenty of tech work, but I got... diverted.

16 years later, I'm still in Hong Kong, having initially come to work for a bra company owned by a distant branch of my family, in more ways than one. Since then I've worked for an IT services company, amongst other things debugging SuSE servers in the back room of 7-11 stores, freelanced for a decade or so, built a few sites and Android apps during that period, worked for an Asia-wide 'Uber for cargo' start-up, and have now been contracting at a large bank doing devops for the past year.

Hong Kong is/was a very easy place to live as a Westerner. Everything official is bilingual, it is/was a transport hub so it was very easy to get home or anywhere else - before the Covid lockdown ended that - plenty of international food, brands, and other expats, and there is/was a fairly active local tech scene. It is/was fairly easy to get a work visa for a 'professional'-level job, but I actually got a special visa which allowed me to work, freelance, have my own business, etc. without needing to be sponsored by an employer, and after 7 years you become a permanent resident which means no more visa needed. That said, moving to Hong Kong was much more of a whim than a plan - it happened to work out pretty well, overall, but it would have been easy to back out and move back to the UK/EU if things hadn't gone well.

I have vague, but slowly firming-up, plans to leave Hong Kong next year, for all the obvious reasons (feel free to ask if they're not obvious!). Unfortunately(?), my local partner is very uninterested in leaving, so it's likely I'll be travelling solo, and my unformed plan at the moment would be to spend a bit of time in UK, maybe bum around Europe for a bit to decompress, then look into Israel - again.

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#68
I have lived and worked in England, Scotland, in the US, Switzerland and in Germany.

USA: best opportunities for smart people to engage in big-impact work. People are too crazy about work. Depending on the city, can also be unsafe. Switzerland: extremely high financial compensation but also high cost of living despite low taxation. People love nature but many are too materialistic. UK: Was the most interesting country to live in up to 2016, no sadly going isolationist. Germany: good quality of life but a bit boring apart from a few hip cities like Berlin or Cologne.

Although the weather there sucks, living in Edinburgh, Scotland, has been fantastic experience, and it tops all other places. The only disadvantage is that due to Brexit (most Scots were and are against it) it is (now) outside of the EU.

The fact that all EU citizens have complete freedom of movement is priceless (to me).

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the father comment, that was what you took away from his message? > "People are generally more relaxed to the point that it annoyed me for years. I attribute this to the lack of any concept of 'hustle' and not being worried about dying in poverty. I think a huge amount of the American personality comes from a subconscious anxiety over how precarious we live." I think this was the bigger driver over his personal…

You nailed it. The beer thing was just adding some local color. drstewart's comment is a great example of what I mean by the US not being a functioning society. What you have there now is a conglomeration of individuals all with their knives out waiting for anyone around then to trip up in the most trivial way. I believe this is caused by the anxiety I mentioned already, and it in turn causes anxiety in everyone else…

>drstewart's comment is a great example of what I mean by the US not being a functioning society.

Talk about trolling - pretty convenient to just hand wave any criticism of your own talking points away as proof of them.

No, there's no subconscious anxiety here. I'll remind you that you brought up all the negative stereotyping and accusations, so maybe there's an imminent failure of Austrian society at play?

Re: Ask HN: What is your story of immigrating to another country?

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! What are you talking about? That comment was in response to a question about differences between the countries. The USA is a 3rd world country because we allow people to literally and figuratively rot on the street. There are many others of course... Can I assume from your aggrieved attitude and uncharitable reading that you're a fellow American?

When the top thing you can think of as the main difference is that you can get blasted at 11am in a foreign country, the "uncharitable reading" is that you're an alcoholic, not that you're a sheltered emigrant that doesn't know what a real third world country is like.

The parent comment asked «How would you describe the local population», to which it was replied «People are generally more relaxed to the point that it annoyed me for years», also instanced to the "anytime beer". The reasoning flows.
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