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Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

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291–300 of 306 posts

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#291
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a lucky investment is “abusing the intent”?

It wasn't luck. He sold himself assets at below market value to launder them into his IRA under the contribution limit.

Wait, you’re accusing Thiel of money laundering?

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#292
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty obvious. When you don't tolerate any restrictions, liberty is what remains.

This is a common refrain but just false, restrictions and regulations are very often the only thing guaranteeing liberty. We’re often told “free market good, government bad” but the reality is somewhere in the middle (without even getting into the fact that the free market is itself created through government regulation) I’d recommend checking out Mike Konzcal’s recent book Freedom From The Market https://thenewpress…

The free market is voluntary exchange without aggression (initiation of violence)–that's the "free" part. Far from being created by government, the free market is utterly incompatible with the claim to "legitimate" initiation of violence, which is the defining characteristic of any government and how it enforces its restrictions and regulations. You can have a market economy with a government, but it won't be a free market.

People are perfectly capable of trading with each other on a voluntary basis without requiring any restrictions or regulations or any other form of violence. And if violence does occur people are perfectly entitled to respond in self-defense without depending on any government to intervene.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#293

The whole article is predicated on the lie that low and middle income earners are buying private placements and LLCs in their IRAs. They are not. Full stop.

That's a massive flex on your part, I know a co-worker who did this and he earns less than 185k a year.

The median income in the US was $67,251 in 2020 per the US Census Bureau. Low income would be much less than that, and middle income would approximate it. How many people making $70k/year do you think are investing in a private placement in their IRA?

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#294
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's payment for goods and services. If you want to live in a stateless utopia, you don't get any of the benefits of the state. That's the social contract.

"Social contract" is the cry of the authoritarian. You do not speak for me. No other person does, unless I hire them. An acceptable solution would be contractual representation.

eyeroll emoji

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#295
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common refrain but just false, restrictions and regulations are very often the only thing guaranteeing liberty. We’re often told “free market good, government bad” but the reality is somewhere in the middle (without even getting into the fact that the free market is itself created through government regulation) I’d recommend checking out Mike Konzcal’s recent book Freedom From The Market https://thenewpress…

The free market is voluntary exchange without aggression (initiation of violence)–that's the "free" part. Far from being created by government, the free market is utterly incompatible with the claim to "legitimate" initiation of violence, which is the defining characteristic of any government and how it enforces its restrictions and regulations. You can have a market economy with a government, but it won't be a free…

I see what you’re saying, but it’s just not true.

Trade takes the form of exchange of the rights of ownership, and this is a right enforced by government.

For example, if I own a house, the house doesn’t care who does what. The owner is the one with the right to call the cops if a non-owner comes in unwanted. This instantly becomes an appeal to violence and the government.

This is even more true in the modern sense of the free market, financial markets exchange very little actual physical goods, the thing being traded is rights to contracts, rights which are guaranteed by the government regulator.

The only place this isn’t quite true is with blockchain based assets.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#296
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't luck. He sold himself assets at below market value to launder them into his IRA under the contribution limit.

Wait, you’re accusing Thiel of money laundering?

I do not believe this behavior meets the definition of criminal money laundering, if that's what you're asking.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#297
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or that low and middle income should use it as a model and the practice should be encouraged? Problem with the low/middle income is that where to begin? Rich people hire lawyers to do the work. Low/middle income like myself knows this is available but can't utilize it as we don't know where to start, how to do it, who to contact and can't afford to hire a lawyer.

I'm not sure it's so much about not knowing where to start as it is that complex strategies that require lawyers and accountants above and beyond routine tax filings quickly start costing more than any potential tax savings unless there's a lot of money involved.

I know tons of people who don't invest in 401k because they don't understand.

I know tons of people don't know how our income tax rate bracket works.

I just learned yesterday that you can invest in bitcoin using self directed IRA. I am trying to figure out how to do it, but kind of lost.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the killer, indeed. Checkbook IRAs are amazing retirement tools if you're interested in using some of your retirement money in high-risk, high-reward investments. My retirement fund benefited enormously from the Q3 2020 crypto market gains, which would not have been possible without my LLC. It's hard to see this as anything other than removing all the peasants from the market so that the big dogs can have it…

I don't think too many "peasants" have LLCs so they can use their IRAs to invest in crypto.

Trust me, compared to the people moving real money in these markets we are all peasants.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how we are all pretending that mutual and index funds are also not a casino.

They have cash flows and intrinsic value. Crypto does not.

Oh sure, all those tech stocks that are based on PE ratios and real earnings and definitely not wild, sweaty speculation.

Re: Self directed IRAs under attack in proposed tax bill

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the killer, indeed. Checkbook IRAs are amazing retirement tools if you're interested in using some of your retirement money in high-risk, high-reward investments. My retirement fund benefited enormously from the Q3 2020 crypto market gains, which would not have been possible without my LLC. It's hard to see this as anything other than removing all the peasants from the market so that the big dogs can have it…

> My retirement fund benefited enormously from the Q3 2020 crypto market gains, which would not have been possible without my LLC. We probably shouldn't encourage the general public to gamble their retirement funds in a casino. I understand many believe this is an "asset class", but there is ample evidence crypto has no place in someone's retirement asset mix. Such investment in a taxable account is reasonable compro…

>We probably shouldn't encourage the general public to gamble their retirement funds in a casino.

No? Should we prohibit them from investing in mutual funds since bonds are so much safer? Or maybe mutual funds are OK but individual stocks should be illegal? Or maybe just certain, whitelisted stocks above a certain market cap that the 'professionals' decide are too big to fail?

Or maybe we should let individuals decide the correct mix of yield and risk that suits their age and risk tolerance?

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