Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#631

Post by bena » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

hakfoo wrote: post #606

bena wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not that surprised. He kept going on and on about taxing "tech" to fund UBI. And it would work out and it would be like Alaska with their oil fund thing. But, when you get down to it, what is "tech"? How is it different from just anything? We use the word "tech" to essentially describe any business that is based primarily on software. Where software is a major focus. Because, like chemicals, technology is litera…

Devil's advocate, but starting with a broad based "who to tax" concept allows for more room to horse trade. If he said front and centre "I want to personally dangle Jeff Bezos and Sergei Brin over the edge of a tall building and shake until their wallets fall out" that gives one clear target to fight over. Starting with an amorphous blob target lets everyone involved say "Oh, we'll exclude X, Y, and Z...." and feel l…

Yes, and the real trick is to say "Jeff Bezos" without explicitly naming him. Because a law that calls out a specific person has a built-in expiration date.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#632

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #86

endisneigh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approval voting is simpler, doesn't require ballots to change and has the same effect in practice (but not in theory). I'd be surprised if an average person finds ranked choice voting to be simpler to understand than approval or FPTP.

Yeah, this is one huge advantage of approval voting. The main issue with approval voting though is that it's much harder for individuals to use when voting. It's tricky to figure out when to bullet vote vs not bullet vote. Simplicity to use != simplicity to count I think ranked choice is in that sweet spot where it is reasonably simple to use and simple to count.

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#633

Post by holywar20 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 7:43 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #597

ordinaryradical wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yang explains this exact issue so well here: https://youtu.be/-2O3JYaELW0?t=1038 This is part of the reason he and others will be pushing for structural changes, including open primaries, as central to the platform. Changing the mechanics of the elections is the only way to enable a return to centrism in the US.

> Changing the mechanics of the elections is the only way to enable a return to centrism in the US. There is no centrism to return to. The post-WWII age of bipartisanship wasn't one of centrism, it was one where the party split didn't align with the ideological divide. It was jist as much a period of competing ideological extremes (and governing from ideological polarized positions, which is why it featured the US mi…

Americans feel unrepresented. This makes us despair and forces us into increasingly unpopular, existential crisis, that are good for no one.

I do not believe the problem is we aren't progressive enough. The problem is no one trusts the goverment. And no one trusts the goverment is because no one in goverment is accountable to the majority and no one governs the way we would like to be governed.

Frankly it's not about 'centrism'. It's about the fact the parties do NOT represent the diversity of opinion in America. there pro-choice republicans, pro-life democrats, republicans who like trans-rights, pro-capitalism democrats, pro-gun democrats, anti-trump Republicans ... But despite all this diversity of opinion, you have a system that forces binary choices between slates of options.

We are a very diverse country - ethnically, politically, socially. It's beautifully diverse. Among the most diverse in the world. I do not believe the current political system reflects that diversity accurately.

Which is why voter participation in America is low, and most elections across the country do not matter. This is wrong. Every district in America should be competitive.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#634

Post by holywar20 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

tangent128 wrote: post #563

api wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doing management rather than politics, This. I want someone who will throw the culture war out the window (both the left and right wings of it) and focus 100% on competent problem solving and execution and on real world practical problems facing the country. These are problems like infrastructure, transportation, water security in the West, energy modernization and decarbonization, repatriation of critical manufact…

It's not easy to divorce "culture war" from "problem solving", since the question of whether problems even _exist_ and need to be solved is frequently a culture-war issue. For example, you can't pursue "energy modernization and decarbonization" in the USA without taking a side in the "does anthropogenic climate change exist?" culture war. Any infrastructure plan, whether heavy-infrastructure or social-infrastructure,…

It's easier than you think.

Because much of the culture war stuff isn't substantive. It's theater. There aren't any numbers on it.

IF your concerned with say racial inequality - well then good! Solve a practical problem by focusing your energy on poverty which already selects for a racially diverse group.

End gerry mandering ? That right there is the root of racial disparity in representation, and people hate it. Open Primaries is the only thing Libertarians and Greens agree on - that should be an easy lift when 65% of America wants more options.

What Yang is saying is "Instead of 2 flavors of ice cream, how about 10!". Who the hell votes for only 2 flavors?

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#635

Post by holywar20 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #176

jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

That American obsession with the founding fathers always puzzles me as a non-American. France is in tis 5th Republic, the second since WW2. Germany went through a lot of Government changes since the 18th century as well, as did a lot of other countries in Europe. With the exception of some wierdos nobody puts those long gone governments on a pedestal.

Fair!

But I think the Founding Fathers specifically had a vision for the nation that was transformative. And it actually goes all the way back to European Philosophers like John Locke.

The U.S. Constitution has embedded within it the Enlightenment observations that created the modern world. I believe these observations were profound. I also believe that's why we aren't on the the 5th republic. Despite being a young country, we have the oldest constitution on the planet.

And much of the trouble we are in as a planet is that the enlightenment itself is under siege. It's worth it at this time of turmoil to consult history with a bit of prudence.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#636

Post by holywar20 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

lucienmaxwell wrote: post #195

jagrsw wrote: post #159

".. because our founding fathers .." It's interesting to see that all sides of political dispute in US, even parties (like this one) which want to cater to the seemingly more rational and less emotional part of the populace use the argument of "the founding fathers wanted it this way, so... that must be the correct way of doing things forever".

This is actually not true at all, especially if you consider wings or movements within the two dominant parties. Examining American political history over the past century reveals all sorts of differing views on the Founding, including a president that was openly hostile to many of their thoughts and ideals (Wilson). Part of the general trend of radical adherence to the Founding is an understanding of the equally rad…

An important point. There are ideas worth keeping in an era of revolutionary change. I believe many if not most of the ideas ( if not specific implementation ) within the American Constitution are among them.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#637

Post by holywar20 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

jagrsw wrote: post #376

dragonwriter wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The moment that the Founding Fathers cease to be the mythology glue holding the nation together will be the minute that the country fractures into 20 different nation-states. No, it won't. Because the Founding Fathers aren't now the mythology glue holding the nation together. American national identity is mich more (and much fuzzier) than that. Appeal to the Founding Fathers is just a tired political cliche.

To continue on the "American national identity" trope. Could the (un)conscious fear of the country loosing cohesiveness the reason for displaying national US signs in many contexts of American life so frequently, in order to counter any possible de-federalisation movements? Flags are frequent on walls of event venues, people put them on cars as stickers/flags or on their clothing (rarely, I know), and the US populace…

The American Flag is a symbol for a set of ideas that we actually hold sacred. Call it a religion if you like.

I got one behind me. I put it up the day after Seditionists attacked The Capital. My uncle gave it to me after I returned from an actual war 20 years ago.

I think we got reasons to be proud. The Enlightenment was first conceived in goverment here. As a result of that awareness I read all the original European philosophers who made up that 17th century intellectual movement, and I have a deep appreciation for that wisdom and what it helped create. And I think the ideas within are worth defending. I can't speak to a Europeans relationship with his or her country, but there is a good reason both historically and ethically, that ours is so prominent, and I think that identity has been good for the country.

And honestly just as an observation it seems more benign to have a flag as a symbol that actually means something to people when there isn't a war or a soccer game, than only trotted out when there is one.

Re: Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party

#638

Post by ClayShentrup » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 2:09 AM UTC

lalaland1125 wrote: post #35

tryptophan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh I support electoral reform, but why the obsession with ranked choice? It is the second WORST voting system after first past the post, which is what we have now.

Ranked choice has a lot of advantages over the alternatives that are often underestimated by people too worried about theory. The big advantage of ranked choice is that it is simple to understand and implement. In elections, it is essential that the average person understand exactly how the system works. An election result that people don't understand/trust is worse than useless.

This is deeply wrong. IRV is one of the most complicated methods, and most people in places that use it can't even explain how it works.

https://link.medium.com/mKcRWz0xR7