Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs • Hacker News Board

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#101

Post by RickWolter » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #98

RickWolter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi founder of Underdog Devs here.... 1. The website is sparse because we spend our money on the mentees bills and so relied on those learning to build it. 2. As for orgs having a "fairly significant level of sketchy behavior" and falling victim to corruption, as you put it...sounds like a lot of speculation. I cant know either of those assertions as I dont have any data on it. I only know what we are doing. 3. I disa…

I won’t get into a pissing match, here, but my own life story is one you might find interesting (or maybe not). I’m not some “ivory tower geek,” using strawman arguments. I have over 40 years, working directly with folks, suffering from withering challenges. It's entirely possible that we might travel in the same circles, and you may have even run across my work (most folks don't know it's my work, but a lot of peopl…

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match?

I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match.

Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately know what it takes for our mentees to do what we are trying to help them do. I did it. I grew up in prison and then later became a developer. All that is true but I was just answering your questions and felt no need to tell you why I think I have the perspective and knowledge to do what we are doing.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/offenderSearch/detail.aspx?Page=De...

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#102

Post by twof » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

klik99 wrote: post #78

Has anyone done a mentor program like this? Or even this?

As a mentor or mentee? I'm mentoring for them right now. AMA.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#103

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

RickWolter wrote: post #101

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t get into a pissing match, here, but my own life story is one you might find interesting (or maybe not). I’m not some “ivory tower geek,” using strawman arguments. I have over 40 years, working directly with folks, suffering from withering challenges. It's entirely possible that we might travel in the same circles, and you may have even run across my work (most folks don't know it's my work, but a lot of peopl…

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match? I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match. Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately kno…

Actually, I already knew your story. You haven’t made an effort to hide it. It seems as if you actually make a point of highlighting it.

I’d gently suggest that taking a combative stance may play well in The Yard, but is less effective, out here. Those of us that face societal challenges are best-served by playing nice. That’s one of the hardest lessons that folks in reentry need to learn.

I sincerely wish you the best. There are folks that want you to succeed, and we may not all be who you expect.

I certainly apologize for throwing shade. I have become quite cynical, over the years, and regularly encounter folks that look at people like us as “easy marks,” because society doesn’t really have our back.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#104

Post by Woberto » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

RickWolter wrote: post #101

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t get into a pissing match, here, but my own life story is one you might find interesting (or maybe not). I’m not some “ivory tower geek,” using strawman arguments. I have over 40 years, working directly with folks, suffering from withering challenges. It's entirely possible that we might travel in the same circles, and you may have even run across my work (most folks don't know it's my work, but a lot of peopl…

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match? I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match. Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately kno…

I think your original response came off as a bit defensive and combative, as did this one. Not a good look if you're trying to garner support, especially since the person has experience in this realm and it would've been good to acknowledge different experiences

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#105

Post by RickWolter » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:44 PM UTC

Woberto wrote: post #104

RickWolter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match? I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match. Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately kno…

I think your original response came off as a bit defensive and combative, as did this one. Not a good look if you're trying to garner support, especially since the person has experience in this realm and it would've been good to acknowledge different experiences

I agree they were defensive responses. I was responding to accusations. The defensiveness was intentional.

The first comment felt like he was insinuating we are sketchy and the second that I was attempting to involve him in a "pissing contest". Neither are true and so I was defensive. I wasn't being an asshole. I was speaking plainly to those insinuations. I simply addressed where he might be wrong.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#106

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

RickWolter wrote: post #105

Woberto wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your original response came off as a bit defensive and combative, as did this one. Not a good look if you're trying to garner support, especially since the person has experience in this realm and it would've been good to acknowledge different experiences

I agree they were defensive responses. I was responding to accusations. The defensiveness was intentional. The first comment felt like he was insinuating we are sketchy and the second that I was attempting to involve him in a "pissing contest". Neither are true and so I was defensive. I wasn't being an asshole. I was speaking plainly to those insinuations. I simply addressed where he might be wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#107

Post by RickWolter » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 7:34 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #103

RickWolter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match? I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match. Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately kno…

Actually, I already knew your story. You haven’t made an effort to hide it. It seems as if you actually make a point of highlighting it. I’d gently suggest that taking a combative stance may play well in The Yard, but is less effective, out here. Those of us that face societal challenges are best-served by playing nice. That’s one of the hardest lessons that folks in reentry need to learn. I sincerely wish you the be…

You're right I havent made an effort to hide my past. Hard thing to hide, spending nearly half my life behind bars. I also highlight it. I use it as a tool. Its a point of reference for people wondering if they can do it. And we have also used it to garner support for Underdog Devs.

Thats not me being combative. Thats just me answering what felt like accusatory insinuations. I was defensive and direct but I wasn't trying to provoke you.

Appreciate you apologizing and I understand your cynicism. Im a bit cynical with this space as well.

I assure you UD is a different thing than what you're used to. We havent even used any money for operating costs. We could but we've instead focused on getting mentees bills paid so that those who would be most impacted by the economic mobility that programming affords can focus on learning. We all have spent countless hours, all as volunteers, trying to create opportunities for folks who might not otherwise have them.

Appreciate your support and the apology.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#108

Post by 908B64B197 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #49

nomdep wrote: post #8

Are developers the new blue-collar workers? I haven’t seen a similar program for aspiring lawyers, doctors or accountants. Aren’t we too eager to commoditize the profession?

This comment just doesn't sit right with me. Obviously there's the issue that it reeks of tech elitism but there's more to it than that. Like not everyone needs to pass a FAANG hiring crap shoot. You can give someone useful skills with which they can earn a living. As for accountants, well there are levels here too. Bookkeeping being one entry-level route. "Accountant" also means many things, like it's often conflate…

> required on-the-job training (ie residency program, possibly a fellowship), it can take 6-12 years to fully train a doctor.

> Whatever you may think of us software engineers, we're nowhere near the same level as a doctor in terms of required training.

I don't know about that.

Residency takes years, but I'm not convinced it couldn't be done faster (there are cultural reasons why it's done that way). Basically, there's a strict pecking order among residents (first years are taught and evaluated by second years and so on) and every "level" basically tries to show off to his boss (because most coveted spots are competitive).

That often degenerates into a contest of who can sleep the least and be the hero that keeps the floor from "falling apart". I've seen fourth year residents undo work from third years, who themselves re-did work the second year did, who himself re-did something the first year resident had done. Everyone "saved the day" that night, except when the attending came in the morning he agreed with the diagnosis and treatment the first year resident implemented. You get the picture.

The long years of schooling with little, expensive residency matching trips and interviews and unrelated undergrad required to even apply are all pretty good gatekeeping mechanism to keep poor people out however.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#109

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #103

RickWolter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why insinuate I was instigating a pissing match? I answered sincerely and in some areas corrected you. Thats it. I didnt attempt to "out credential" you. Your post felt like it was insinuating we are shady and so I answered. Correcting you isn't a pissing match. Had I wanted to engage in a pissing match I would have let you know that I did 18 years in prison and became a software engineer afterwards. I intimately kno…

Actually, I already knew your story. You haven’t made an effort to hide it. It seems as if you actually make a point of highlighting it. I’d gently suggest that taking a combative stance may play well in The Yard, but is less effective, out here. Those of us that face societal challenges are best-served by playing nice. That’s one of the hardest lessons that folks in reentry need to learn. I sincerely wish you the be…

[deleted]

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#110

Post by gatlin » Sat, Oct 09, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #69

moksly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s just a really hard nut to crack. Because even if you remove the bias and stigma, corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I’ve met these people in the public sector where we have policies in place to employ the people who are hard to employ and focus on not discriminating people because of what they bring. But the fact that we have those policies and that focus speaks a lot about how hard of an issu…

> corporations are at their core, risk adverse. I'm even experiencing this. And I'm a "normal" person by many accounts (graduated from uni, no crime, little experience, etc.). I can't imagine how tough it must be for people that committed a crime in the past.

I will say nothing that incriminates me but I have broken plenty, plenty of laws in my life. And I have done unspeakably shitty things to people that were perfectly legal. Someone's criminal record is a different kind of CV to me, simple as.