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Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

browser.kagi.com

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Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#71

Post by sylvinus »

freediver wrote: post #64

Hey everyone, I am the founder behind Orion, bootstrapping the project. Started working on it three years ago with a small team just to see if it would be possible to build something like this from scratch and we just kept going. Orion is today a daily browser for a few dozen beta-testers and it warms my heart to see that we got that far considering the competition. Few questions about Orion answered that I see pop p…

Congrats for the project! Love the simple UI and extensions support.

Don't you fear being held back by WebKit, which is notoriously slow to implement new web platform features? Can you give some insights on how you chose the engine?

Thanks!

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#72

Post by Dingus25 »

I just got added to the Orion beta last night, and have been using Kagi for a while now. Both seem remarkably polished for beta products, but still have their own quirks and rough spots. In my experience I’ve mentioned a couple things that I’d like to have, and the team was super quick to get them acknowledged and implemented. It’s going to come down to how the team chooses to monetize these for me, but I’d be more than happy to subscribe if it means I’m giving less to Google.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#73

Post by wil421 »

Applejinx wrote: post #53
wil421 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Safari not have privacy features? Or Firefox? Apple has very publicly been trying to block tracking on its platforms and has the resources that are comparable to nation states. The also publicly fought the FBI and, if the blogs are true, severely hindered FaceBooks tracking. Kagi is bootstrapped by a somewhat unknown founder presumably in Serbia or from Serbia. Serbia has not always been a friend of the West…

So is that actually Kagi again, or did some founder buy out the name and .com as one of the assets in the bankruptcy?

I went to the about page on Kagi.com and read. Did a quick google search but the name is common.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#74

Post by freediver »

sylvinus wrote: post #71
freediver wrote: post #64

Hey everyone, I am the founder behind Orion, bootstrapping the project. Started working on it three years ago with a small team just to see if it would be possible to build something like this from scratch and we just kept going. Orion is today a daily browser for a few dozen beta-testers and it warms my heart to see that we got that far considering the competition. Few questions about Orion answered that I see pop p…

Congrats for the project! Love the simple UI and extensions support. Don't you fear being held back by WebKit, which is notoriously slow to implement new web platform features? Can you give some insights on how you chose the engine? Thanks!

Thank you!

To answer the question, we need to go a step back and answer how did we chose the platform first. The decision to go with macOS first was made in 2018 for the simple reason that we thought macOS has a bright future as a consumer OS. This was pre-M1 so we are glad to see macOS adoption grow!

Once we settled on macOS, WebKit was a natural choice as it is the web rendering engine supported by the OS manufacturer. This would enable us to have best performance and OS integration features. The drawback was lack of any browser app frameworks so we basically had to write the browser app from scratch.

I am not that worried about WebKit's slow(er) pace of web platform feature adoption (although I'd love to see something like AVIF support etc.) partly because I know that these decisions are carefully weighted for their impact (what is the right level of hardware/browser/web separation for example). In the future, if Orion becomes success, we hope to be able to have full time contributors to help accelerate its development.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#75

Post by krrrh »

perardi wrote: post #46

A bit of a tangent, but not that much: I loathe the new Safari “tabs”, with as much scare as you can get in those scare quotes. But, I still can’t leave Safari be, as I appreciate the history and Keychain sync with my iOS devices. It’s that tight macOS/iOS integration that makes me stay on Safari, along with the relatively lighter energy usage versus Chrome. This looks nice in terms of using native UIKit elements (pr…

This can import your passwords from Safari 15 and then can sync with Kagi for iOS which is a bit of a help.

For me the biggest loss would be Apple Pay, and “Sign in with Apple” which is incredibly useful for signing up to services while maintaining some level of privacy.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#76

Post by gls2ro »

VOBOSHI wrote: post #63
gls2ro wrote: post #44

If possible (a.k.a if Apple allows this) please integrate Keychain with this browser. I am not sure if there are many people like me, but I am using Keychain and it is the reason why I default to Safari and using any other browser it takes effort that I am doing, but I really wish Keychain could be integrated in other browsers too. LE: It seems they already support this as stated in their FAQ/"How does Orion store my…

The FAQ mentions that this is possible / done with the latest Safari.

Yes, thank you for that.

Found it here: https://browser.kagi.com/faq.html

> Orion uses native macOS Keychain integration, same as Safari.

GG, I applied to be a beta-user. Let's see!

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#77

Post by krrrh »

zoul wrote: post #68
perardi wrote: post #46

A bit of a tangent, but not that much: I loathe the new Safari “tabs”, with as much scare as you can get in those scare quotes. But, I still can’t leave Safari be, as I appreciate the history and Keychain sync with my iOS devices. It’s that tight macOS/iOS integration that makes me stay on Safari, along with the relatively lighter energy usage versus Chrome. This looks nice in terms of using native UIKit elements (pr…

The new Safari tabs are so bad that I’m sure they can’t stay that way for long. I was hoping I would get used to the broken active tab highlighting, but after a few days I’m still clicking the wrong tabs in the tab bar. I can’t believe it.

The compact layout may not be for everyone, but it plus turning on show full url in address bar, makes it obvious which tab is active.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#78

Post by wodenokoto »

perardi wrote: post #46

A bit of a tangent, but not that much: I loathe the new Safari “tabs”, with as much scare as you can get in those scare quotes. But, I still can’t leave Safari be, as I appreciate the history and Keychain sync with my iOS devices. It’s that tight macOS/iOS integration that makes me stay on Safari, along with the relatively lighter energy usage versus Chrome. This looks nice in terms of using native UIKit elements (pr…

What do you use for Adblock?

I prefer FF due to ublock and better floating videos / Picture in Picture

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#79

Post by krrrh »

dmitriid wrote: post #27
herodotus wrote: post #10

The sales pitch for this browser is really well done. What is lacking is information about who made this, and why we should trust their claims. Seems important too me if privacy is the main selling feature.

"Kagi - Better Web for our Children" Well... It's a pass from me. Anything claiming something is "think of the children" is at best facetious.

It seems a lot closer to “Wu-Tang is for the children!” The project is very pro-privacy.

Re: Orion is a new WebKit-based browser for Mac

#80

Post by zdragnar »

askonomm wrote: post #56
StevePerkins wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pros: * Supports both Chrome and Firefox extensions, vs. Brave supporting Chrome only. * Not so much with the skeezy crypto emphasis. Cons: * Brave has a multi-year head start, and has worked all the kinks out. Sync works, etc. * This is Apple-only. Brave works on every major device. I won’t be leaving Brave anytime soon. But competition is a good thing, and this beta is worth keeping an eye on.

Saying that a purposely Apple-only product has a con that it is Apple-only is like saying a vanilla ice cream has a con that it is not chocolate.

When the ask is to compare it with Brave, noting that it is an Apple-only product is indeed a con against Orion.
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