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Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

underdogdevs.org

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Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#71

Post by throwhn68753 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #66

Although I support the idea, the web site seems a bit … sparse … to me. This is an area that I know well. I’ve been working with folks like this for decades. One huge problem with rehabilitation and reentry programs, is a fairly significant level of sketchy behavior. Many times, these efforts start from a good place, but fall victim to corruption. It’s difficult to work with folks that have criminal backgrounds, but…

Between school and studies I also worked for a year a job involving manual labor (what people do during that time). So there were people with such backgrounds. All people are different and while working there I found them very likeable. With one guy I also became friends later and that guy stalked/pressed money out of me for a year. I think this is all great but companies need to have a very good idea what they are doing and have 1:1s with all employees about this and educate their juniors well.

> Also, I’m not to thrilled about the site conflating “disadvantaged” folks with ex-cons.

True, I mean "disadvantaged" people might not be selling themselves so well anyway. So people are already cautious.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#72

Post by raxxorrax »

gatlin wrote: post #4
moksly wrote: post #3

I’ve worked with a few former criminals who spent time in prison for things they did in their youths. Keep in mind that I’m Scandinavian and our justice system is very, very, different. But all of them had been young and unadjusted and eventually wound up hurting someone over something stupid. Having matured and now in their 30’ies, none of that past life remained in any way in my dealings with them. Obviously this i…

The single best tool for rehabilitation, for the convict and the society around them, is meaningful activity. People hurt each other for reasons that are often as sympathetic as they are ultimately intolerable. I think it's wonderful that you had a great experience and shared it because the stigma needs to go. The inclination to follow the law may be tangentially related to a basic ability to follow directions, grant…

Also giving people a perspective is the best weapon to deter crime in the first place. The organized form has massive problems recruiting new members when there are plainly better economic opportunities to be had. Maximum security prisons are only needed when that has already failed.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#73

Post by watwut »

symlinkk wrote: post #25
not2b wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The short answer is yes, the bar for a developer is much, much lower than for a lawyer, a doctor, or an accountant, requiring much less training. Doesn't mean that there aren't some forms of development that require considerable skill and experience, but many positions just don't.

The bar is lower because we don’t have formal testing like they do, e.g. the bar exam or med school.

The bar is lower, because we don't need such procedures for was majority of tech positions.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#74

Post by ThrowTeenFelon »

Throwaway for obvious reasons.

I became a convicted felon a hair after my 18th birthday, for a trespassing charge I received while out-of-my-mind high on drugs.

Long story short, by the time I started highschool, I was experimenting with drugs and skipping school. I was in and out of youth prison for drug-related stuff, and never finished highschool. My life spiraled out of control, in full-blown drug addiction, until I finally landed a year in jail and this felony charge right when I turned 18.

---
When I got out, I got my start in a program similar to this, a software apprenticeship program for "at-risk" youth. It wasn't targeted towards formerly-incarcerated (in fact I think I was the only one they ever had) but I was completely transparent about my situation and past.

I had been doing code stuff for fun, through video game scripting (Lua, some Visual Basic) ever since I was a child and it really paid off.

Today, I have a career in a semi-well-known upstart tech company and live a life I never could have dreamed. But it could come crashing down at any moment. I'm still on felony probation almost a decade later for something I did when I was 18, due to massive debt I have to pay off.

It makes it nearly impossible for me or my wife to find housing, since felons aren't a protected class (IE, you can legally discriminate against us, unlike people with disabilities or on the basis of race).

By no exaggeration, I went through nearly a dozen interview processes while my wife I were working minimum-wage manual labor jobs on the brink of homelessness, to be given an offer letter and then rescinded due to HR blanket "no-felons" policies. "We're so sorry. We would be happy to recommend you to anyone else, though." It became a running joke. I'd do multiple interview rounds which all went well, have a good sense I'd get an offer, and feel nothing from it because I knew I'd have it yanked out from under me on a technicality.

Even today, I live in constant terror that my current employer or coworkers would find out. It's been ~10 years for christ's sake, I've never done anything else in my life. I can't express to you all how absolutely fucked it is to go to prison and become a convicted felon.

Actions speak louder than words, but I'm saving up enough to quit my job and try to secure state funding to back into prisons and teach development + give other people a reason to wake up every morning.

It's really hard not to neck yourself when you're staring at doing multiple years/decades in one of our country's fine estates.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#75

Post by ThrowTeenFelon »

tossit24 wrote: post #53

I am a person with a degree in computer science that was convicted of a felony many moons ago. I have been working as a developer for about the last decade. You can do it, but the fear of losing employment, housing, etc is a very real day-to-day thing I still have in the front of my mind.

You're not alone!

It's going to take a movement to raise awareness about felons not being a Protected Class, and the legalized-discrimination that implies.

The way I usually phrase it is:

  "What would you do if you were black/hispanic/asian and someone said:
    'Yeah there's nothing technically WRONG with you as an applicant.
    'But we just don't really house/hire YOUR KIND around here. Just policy, nothing personal, sorry.'"
And then watch the horrified look on peoples' faces.

This is just an expected occurrence as a felon, regardless of how long it's been.

But who is going to raise such awareness? Someone who can afford to lose their job?

Which unfortunately isn't me at the moment, and it sounds like isn't you.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#76

Post by xamolxix »

ThrowTeenFelon wrote: post #75
tossit24 wrote: post #53

I am a person with a degree in computer science that was convicted of a felony many moons ago. I have been working as a developer for about the last decade. You can do it, but the fear of losing employment, housing, etc is a very real day-to-day thing I still have in the front of my mind.

You're not alone! It's going to take a movement to raise awareness about felons not being a Protected Class, and the legalized-discrimination that implies. The way I usually phrase it is: "What would you do if you were black/hispanic/asian and someone said: 'Yeah there's nothing technically WRONG with you as an applicant. 'But we just don't really house/hire YOUR KIND around here. Just policy, nothing personal, sorry…

You are conflating "the way you are born" with "something you've done" e.g. something you can't choose with something you can.

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#77

Post by [deleted] »

xamolxix wrote: post #76
ThrowTeenFelon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not alone! It's going to take a movement to raise awareness about felons not being a Protected Class, and the legalized-discrimination that implies. The way I usually phrase it is: "What would you do if you were black/hispanic/asian and someone said: 'Yeah there's nothing technically WRONG with you as an applicant. 'But we just don't really house/hire YOUR KIND around here. Just policy, nothing personal, sorry…

You are conflating "the way you are born" with "something you've done" e.g. something you can't choose with something you can.

[deleted]

Re: Underdog Devs: supporting formerly incarcerated and disadvantaged aspiring devs

#80

Post by throwaway1908 »

xamolxix wrote: post #76
ThrowTeenFelon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not alone! It's going to take a movement to raise awareness about felons not being a Protected Class, and the legalized-discrimination that implies. The way I usually phrase it is: "What would you do if you were black/hispanic/asian and someone said: 'Yeah there's nothing technically WRONG with you as an applicant. 'But we just don't really house/hire YOUR KIND around here. Just policy, nothing personal, sorry…

You are conflating "the way you are born" with "something you've done" e.g. something you can't choose with something you can.

Oftentimes the way you are born affects the chances that "something you've done" is recorded on a permanent record. If one race is more likely to be punished with felonies then policies that discriminate against felonies are indirectly discriminating against race.
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